fix the rotten banks

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by rickyb, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    greece, is having depression levels of unemployment at 28% or whatever. they are being forced by big central banks to take on austerity, a policy which has no historical example of ever working. austerity is pure class war.

    anyways greece essentially elected the equivalent of the american green party coming into control with a left wing party called syriza.

    to deal with their economic crisis which the banks mostly caused with their speculation and imprudent lending, the greeks are now talking about nationalizing the banks. there is legislation in america to create national banks, and there is one already for the state of north dakota.

    a nationalized bank would keeps property and sales taxes, along with payrolls for public employees and pension funds, from lining the pockets of speculators such as Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein. Money, instead of engorging the bank accounts of the few, is leveraged to fund schools, restore infrastructure, sustain systems of mass transit and develop energy self-reliance.

    “When a public bank such as the bank in North Dakota funds infrastructure projects the interest costs, which [otherwise] are often 50 percent or more of a project, in essence fall to zero because the interest is returned to same people who own the bank and paid the interest in the first place,”
  2. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Greece is a shining example of why the socialist economic system you keep spouting doesn't work.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • List
  3. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

  4. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Top Economists: Iceland Did It Right … And Everyone Else Is Doing It Wrong

    Maybe Greece should follow the Icelandic model. Odd that Iceland did what both the so-called early Tea Party and Occupy folk were saying and that was to not bailout the American banks as well. I still believe that decision to bailout those banks will come back to haunt us in the end and prove those early voices on both side of the isle were correct.
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    that article is alright, im kinda skeptical of some of the things that guy said. i think greece should go after the tax evasion, and tax the rich and corporations. they had savage austerity and it hasnt worked, and im pretty sure i remember hearing there is nothing in history to show that large scale austerity works to get a disfunctional economy going. but im sure there are some places they could cut back on.
  6. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    perhaps iceland learned from Franklin Roosevelt during the great depression creating social security, unemployment insurance, federal min wage, and 12 million government jobs.

    i think your quite right and ive heard alot of reputable and less reputable people say america could have hyper inflation and a turn towards fascism after the economy melts down.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  7. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    not to say that state owned or federal owned banks are anywhere near fool proof, but the private sector isnt setting the bar too high. they do work well quite often and it would create some good ol competition. plus with the savings on interest going to private banks, the government could "cut taxes" or increase spending or "balance their budget" lol.
  8. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Greece’s top individual income tax rate is 42 percent, and its top corporate tax rate is 26 percent. Other taxes include a value-added tax and a real estate tax. Overall tax revenue amounts to 33.8 percent of gross domestic product, and public expenditures equal 58.5 percent of domestic output. Public debt is equivalent to over 170 percent of gross domestic product.

    The Abysmal Failure Of Extreme Socialism In Greece
  9. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    they didnt say too much about the socialism... but it was a good article about the sheer amount of human suffering incurred by the speculators in the banks, and savage central bank policy, along with corrupt governments.

    also be weary of corporate tax rate numbers like 26%. just because its that number, doesnt mean corporations actually pay that rate. the effective corporate tax rate in america is roughly 12% or so even though the official number is more than double that.

    also note that public debt as a % of GDP has soared since they began austerity...

    We have seen these austerity measures before. Latin Americans, like the Russians, were forced by the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank to gut social services, end subsidies on basic goods and food, and decimate the income levels of the middle class—the foundation of democracy—in the name of fiscal responsibility. Small entrepreneurs, especially farmers, were wiped out. State industries were sold off by corrupt government officials to capitalists for a fraction of their value. Utilities and state services were privatized.

    this is 5 years old on greece:
  10. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    The government spends much more than it takes in in taxes. They can't squeeze more money from people because 30-40% of the population is dependent on the government in some way - either some form of welfare or a government job. There aren't enough workers in the private sector to support the rest. Greece has been spending more money than it can afford for years. They refused to reduce spending or do anything to try to manage their debt. They expected the rest of Europe to keep supporting them but that is no longer happening. You can try to blame greedy corporations but that is nether the problem nor a solution.
  11. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    You were the one that mentioned Greece in your first post in this thread.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  12. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    ahem pardon me. all this communist rhetoric is shrinking my brain
  13. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Is that possible?
  14. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    is spain a shining example of socialist economic policies too? what about the other countries that had an increase in unemployment? is it all socialisms fault?
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
  15. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    Pretty much. Its not quite in as bad shape as Greece but close.
  16. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    NOAM CHOMSKY: In the dealing with them, and sort of forced them to back off from almost all their proposals. What’s going on with the austerity is really class war. As an economic program, austerity, under recession, makes no sense. It just makes the situation worse. So the Greek debt, relative to GDP, has actually gone up during the period of—which is—well, the policies that are supposed to overcome the debt. In the case of Spain, the debt was not a public debt, it was private debt. It was the actions of the banks. And that means also the German banks. Remember, when a bank makes a dangerous, a risky borrowing, somebody is making a risky lending. And the policies that are designed by the troika, you know, are basically paying off the banks, the perpetrators, much like here. The population is suffering. But one of the things that’s happening is that the—you know, the social democratic policies, so-called welfare state, is being eroded. That’s class war. It’s not an economic policy that makes any sense as to end a serious recession. And there is a reaction to it—Greece, Spain and some in Ireland, growing elsewhere, France. But it’s a very dangerous situation, could lead to a right-wing response, very right-wing. The alternative to Syriza might be Golden Dawn, neo-Nazi party.

    What is your view about what is happening in Greece, particularly with regard to the constant demands by the "troika" and Germany's unyielding desire to advance the cause of austerity?

    It appears that the ultimate aim of the German demands from Athens, under the management of the debt crisis, is the capture of whatever is of value in Greece. Some people in Germany appear to be intent on imposing conditions of virtual economic slavery on the Greeks.
  17. rickyb

    rickyb Well-Known Member

    i know in part what happened in greece is the private french and german banks made bad loans to greece, so the ECB gave a bail out to greece but only to bail out the french and german banks, so then greece would owe the central banks directly.
  18. realbrown1

    realbrown1 Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.


    Why don't you get that?
  19. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Willy Sutton is my banking hero .
  20. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Jesse James was mine!