Getting robbed!

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by brownand...proud?, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. brownand...proud?

    brownand...proud? New Member

    Im knew here but wanted to ask around and see if this is happening elsewhere, our small center had time studies done last year, most everyone was running scratch, then the opt in/out 9 5 list went up, 90% of the drivers signed it, all of a sudden our stop counts went up and our time allowances went down, NO one is running scratch anymore and there is no point in grieving for triple pay because we were "over allowed"! The company will give us the boot for "stealing" yet I feel like we are getting robbed! Anyone else notice this sort of thing going on?
  2. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    Your over/underallowed has nothing to do with filing for over 9.5.
  3. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    Not an issue
  4. atatbl

    atatbl Active Member


    TS is a troll that either figured out what some UPS terms mean or works at UPS. Not really worth arguing about.
  5. brownand...proud?

    brownand...proud? New Member

    Our local is very weak here and the last driver who grieved spent a week on car being called a p.o.s. by the center manager, in the end our local told him he could'nt grieve if he was over allowed, but if he had ran scratch and still been over 9.5 then he would have grounds to grieve.
  6. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a weak "local" to me.
  7. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I have a hard time believing this. Where are you and what local? As was stated earlier over/under has nothing to do with filing for excessive overtime.
  8. outamyway

    outamyway New Member

    I don't!

    We're in the middle of some crap that is a lot worse!
  9. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    We had our 1st guy file an over 9.5 last week. He had 3 ride a alongs this week and they said "we'll work on it." We have not had 'opt in, opt out' sheets posted and when I asked the shop steward, he did not know anything about them.

    The talk around the breakroom is to wait and see how the 1st grievance goes. If it works, then more plan to file. Very few around my center seem to be interested in the money, they want under 9.5 days.


    HEFFERNAN Huge Member

    I've always questioned the numbers the computer spits out all the time. The min-max usually is what you would look for in filing a grievance for a 9.5. Now if they raise everyone's min-max by 5%, UPS feels they can get away with it.

    IE has always been a joke to the workforce. Too bad management listens to them more than to us. They might actually learn something.
  11. brownand...proud?

    brownand...proud? New Member

    Thanks, I was just curious, ive been around for a couple years now but am still a cover driver and have'nt really had to deal with the politics much, the money isn't my concern either, I'd just like to make it home to my fam at a decent hour, but when every one in our center started questioning the numbers I started to pay attention!
  12. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    The contract that UPS and the Teamsters agreed upon has no articles concerning "over-allowed" or allowances per say. The only real language is "a fair days work for a fair days pay". You are probably gonna read some pretty nasty remarks about that statement but it's true.
    The bottom line is the Opt in/Opt out is about working over 9.5 days NOT about dispatch or allowances or over/under. To retain the right to file, one must sign the Opt in (meaning you are opting into the O/9.5 language)sheet. The three days rides are meant to scare and harass the drivers out of filing, period. Work as you usually do everyday, if you are going by the methods and the sup or center manager can't find anything that improves your on road time then there is nothing to worry about. If they do find things to improve, you may have a better day each day, it's a win-win situation for the driver. Management can say anything the want, but the contract is the authority in the matter. I suggest you skip over your steward directly to your union BA.

    The following is from the national master agreement agreed to and signed by both the company and the teamsters.

    Article 37
    Management-Employee Relations
    Section 1.
    (a) The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest.
    The Employer shall not in any way intimidate, harass, coerce or overly supervise any employee in the performance of his or her duties. The Employer will treat employees with dignity and respect at all times, which shall include, but not be limited to, giving due consideration to the age and physical condition of the employee. Employees will also treat each other as well as the Employer with dignity and respect.
    Snip>>> the deleted part here is not about over 9.5 days<<<snip
    (c) The Employer shall make a reasonable effort to reduce package car drivers’ workdays below nine
    and one-half (9.5) hours per day where requested. If a review indicates that progress is not being made
    in the reduction of assigned hours of work, the following language shall apply, except in the months of
    November and December:
    Such requests may only be made for the five (5) month periods beginning on each January 1 and
    June 1 of each year. No later than thirty (30) days prior to each January 1st and June 1st, each
    package center will post a “9.5 opt-in/opt-out list” for the applicable five (5) month period. Each
    full-time seniority driver in the center must make an election to opt-in or opt-out of the 9.5
    language in this subsection no later than ten (10) days prior to the applicable five (5) month
    period. Those full-time drivers who choose to opt-out of the 9.5 language in this subsection will
    have no right to file a grievance alleging excessive overtime either under this subsection or under
    an excessive overtime provision in the Supplement, Rider, or Addendum.
    Drivers who choose to opt-in on the 9.5 list shall have the right to file a grievance if the Employer has
    continually worked a driver more than nine and one-half (9.5) hours per day for any three (3) days in a
    workweek. If a grievance under this provision (or a grievance under any excessive overtime provision
    of a Supplement, Rider or Addendum) cannot be resolved at the local level, including Supplemental
    Panels, where applicable, the Union may docket the grievance to be heard by the “9.5 Committee.”
    This Committee shall be composed of two (2) Union and two (2) Employer representatives. The 9.5
    Committee shall have the authority to direct the Employer to adjust the driver’s work schedule.
    Deadlocked cases shall be referred to the Employer’s Vice President of Labor Relations and the Co-
    Chair of the Teamsters United Parcel Service Negotiating Committee for final and binding resolution.
    The Employer’s Vice President and the Union’s Co-Chair shall have the discretion to grant the grievant
    double triple time pay for hours worked in excess of nine and one-half (9.5) hours per day and/or to
    order the Employer to adjust the driver’s work schedule. In the event the Employer’s Vice President and
    the Union’s Co-Chair cannot resolve a grievance, either party may refer the matter to arbitration in
    accordance with Article 8. In the event the position of the Union is sustained, the arbitrator shall have
    the authority to impose any remedy set forth in this Section.
    The 9.5 Committee shall also have the authority to adopt guidelines to ensure that this Section is
    implemented in such a way as to balance the Employer’s need to protect the integrity of its
    operations with an employee’s legitimate need to avoid excessive overtime.

    (d) No employee shall be disciplined for exceeding personal time based on data received from the
    DIAD/IVIS or other information technology.
  13. Hangingon

    Hangingon New Member

    Have to go pretty far before you start seeing any monetary damages if they deadlock all the way up. I wonder how long that would take to work all the way up to the arbitrator.
  14. BigBrownSanta

    BigBrownSanta New Member

    I'll let you know when I get my grievances back. Every 9.5 grievance in my building was deadlocked at the last hearing.
  15. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    Three day rides can be the greatest thing to ever happen to a driver.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  16. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    as well as the worst... double edged sword
  17. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    It can be the worst if the driver is doing something he isn't supposed to.
  18. brownand...proud?

    brownand...proud? New Member

    I agree that the rides can be helpful, it all depends on the attitude in the truck though. If the super is trying to paint you as a p.o.s. it makes for a long 3 days! I'm all for someone trying to help me out and show me a new way to do things. I imagine I will get a better feel for things when I bid my own route. I do a good job but am over from time to time and when they ask me why, my argument to them at this point with just being a cover is that I have a family to provide for and I cant do that if Im getting in an accident or injured rushing around trying to scratch, and they are OK with that for now, but have already made it clear that once I bid a route that wont fly!
  19. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Stick with the methods and do not ever rush into a routine of running and allowing yourself to be at a greater risk for injury, trust me it will fly. Your daily routine gets smoother with area knowledge, many things you have to plan out and give a lot of thought too now will become natural which increases productivity. Beyond that there is really no way to safely beat the numbers. You have to take into consideration that the numbers you are trying to achieve are based on perfect loads and perfect situations such as getting out of the building on time, no late air, a truck that runs smooth and area knowledge. I can count on one hand how many times in a year this happens. I guess it is possible in other places but here it doesn't seem so. I am 15 minutes over allowed before I ever leave the building 95% of the time. As I am pulling out of the building I can hear packages falling off the selves to the floor, you don't get more allowances for fixing the mess, etc etc. Yesterday I wasted 15-20 minutes trying to help a little old lady get an ODS ground package shipped, she had no clue what was going on and it took a while to figure it out. Ended up with me telling her to take the package down to the local commercial counter to have them weigh, measure and ship for her. Because I had to cancel the ODS, I received no time allowance for that stop.

    Plan and simple the stress one puts themselves through (with the insistence of management) is the hardest part of this job.
  20. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    ...or they can be their worst nightmare.