Getting sent home first

[things2auction]

We had a little dispute this morning on the pre-load that I thought someone here might be able to help with.

Towards the end of the pre-load when we have finished running volume we normally end up with extra people since the unloaders and other front end people go down to help the load line finish wrapping their trucks. The questions stems from who goes home first.

Obviously if they were going to force someone to go home early they would start with the lowest seniority person and work their way up. However, most the time there are lots of high seniority people (and low) who want to go home a little early. In situations like this is management forced to ask the highest seniority people if they would like to go home first, or can they still send the lower seniority people home?

Thanks for the help!

 

[over9five]

Here (in the yard) they will ask the most senior guy first, "Stay or go"?
And work their way down.

 

[JaxUPSHub]

Management is supposed to ask the most senior employees first, and go down the 'seniority' list.

 

[cachsux]

You start at the top to "Ask someone to go", you come up from the bottom to "Tell someone to go"

 

[brett636]

I remember having this argument a lot when I was parttime. The supervisor would want to randomly pick and send people home regardless of seniority, and those of us at the top would sometimes get stuck staying. They would always tell us our seniority only dicated when we would get to pick our vacations and when we went fulltime.

The truth is they are supposed to offer extra work to the highest seniority employee first and work their way down. If the day is wrapping up and work is drying up they are supposed to go to the highest seniority person and ask them if they want to stay, if they say no then they need to send that person home and repeat the process until they find someone willing to stay, or run out of employees that they can safely send home. The only people that should be forced to stay are those who don't have enough seniority to have a choice.

 

[Dragon]

What if the bottom is done with thier work (unload or the front end), why would you ask a senior person if they want to go if thier work is not completed (DA - TP60mover). Where I work if you are not done with your work you do not get to leave, regardless of seniority.

 

[things2auction]

Thanks for the responses, I figured that they should probably ask the highest seniority person first, but wasn't sure.

Im pretty low on the totem pole and they said I could leave early the other day (I was done with my work in the unload) and people were freaking out and threatening to file grievances. On a typical day though ill end up finishing with the unload and then end up having to wrap a set of trucks for someone who only bothered to load 50% of their packages and stacked the rest. lol

 

[cachsux]

If you`re talking two different jobs thats one thing,it stays in the individual group. But if your talking one group in total then seniority prevails regardless.

T2A, thats the deal with being the low man. Some days you`ll be sent home,some you`ll stay. Just make sure if you`re sent home that you at least get your minimum hour guarantee.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

The keys here:

Did the preload go 3.5 hours? Did the unload run 3.5 hours?

Everyone who wants 3.5 hours either will get it or they will file grievances if they are not paid. People who volunteer to go will go.

IF the preload and unload are both over 3.5 hours, then no unloaders should be moved to the preload and the unloaders should be sent home.

BUT- IF preloaders volunteer to go at 3.5 or are sent home AT 3.5 and there is preloading left , THEN the most SENIOR unloaders should pick up the work.

It sounds complicated but it isn't. The key is whether or not everyone is picking up their garauntee 3.5 hours.

If the preload and unload are seperate operations, then the two really cannot be intermingled if everyone is getting 3.5 hours. If someone in the primary unload gets 3.5 and is grieving a preloader with less seniority getting 5, it will not fly, for ex:

 

[Dragon]

Excellent post SMH.

 

[grgrcr88]

Management is supposed to ask the most senior employees first, and go down the 'seniority' list.

Not true, that is the way most would do it, but the contract gives you the right to work by seniority, NOT THE RIGHT NOT TO WORK.

If a senior person wants to stay that is protected by seniority not the other way around!!

 

[cachsux]

Not true, that is the way most would do it, but the contract gives you the right to work by seniority, NOT THE RIGHT NOT TO WORK.

If a senior person wants to stay that is protected by seniority not the other way around!!

Sorry but you are incorrect. If the day is ending and mgmt wants to cut some people loose they are to start at the top and ask if the senior person on down want to stay. They have the right BY SENIORITY to stay or go. And so on down the seniority list. When mgmt reaches bottom if they have not had enough people BY SENIORITY opt to go then from the lowest seniority on up they will tell people its time to go. As long as these people have their contracted time in they have no choice but to go.

Now the one way the senior person will HAVE to go before the junior person is if the senior person has made their contracted minimum hours and the junior person has not. For example if the senior person has 8+ and the junior only has 6,then then senior person has to go.

If the senior person has NOT made their contracted minimum,say hes only at 6, but the junior person has made the contracted minimum,he has his 8, then mgmt can let the junior person go and the senior person has to stay.

If mgmt does not follow protocol and just sends a junior person home with out asking anyone by seniority,then the senior person can inform mgmt that they either want to leave also or be the next to leave.

It might seem complicated but it`s not,seniority prevails in all situations.

 

[grgrcr88]

I would like to see a panel ruling on this, I am not arguing I agree that is the way it should work, but I will bet you a panel will not agree. No where in this contract nor any other in the past nor will it in the future ever protect the right not to work by seniority.

 

[cachsux]

I would like to see a panel ruling on this, I am not arguing I agree that is the way it should work, but I will bet you a panel will not agree. No where in this contract nor any other in the past nor will it in the future ever protect the right not to work by seniority.

Ok,maybe it`s different in your neck of the woods,but shouldn`t be. We go through this daily here. Sups want to send some home but the seniority card is played whether someone wants to stay or go. Most of the mgmt understands this now but you still get someone who occasionally thinks they can pick and choose who goes or stays. Most of the time it`s someone who was just promoted out of hub and still think they`re dealing with naive ptimers.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Ok,maybe it`s different in your neck of the woods,but shouldn`t be. We go through this daily here. Sups want to send some home but the seniority card is played whether someone wants to stay or go. Most of the mgmt understands this now but you still get someone who occasionally thinks they can pick and choose who goes or stays. Most of the time it`s someone who was just promoted out of hub and still think they`re dealing with naive ptimers.

What you are talking about is favortism. When it comes to who leaves first, the management could and should allow the senior people to go home. But, if the senior person happens to be the most useful, that is not going to happen.

There is nothing in the contract about the right not to work, therefore it is all management discretion.

Believe me, the senior guy that management hates is not going home first IF that senior person makes a stink about it. If management does not like you, and you have seniority, the best thing to do is ask to stay every day. They will try to send you home ASAP.

 

[cachsux]

What you are talking about is favortism. When it comes to who leaves first, the management could and should allow the senior people to go home. But, if the senior person happens to be the most useful, that is not going to happen.

There is nothing in the contract about the right not to work, therefore it is all management discretion.

Believe me, the senior guy that management hates is not going home first IF that senior person makes a stink about it. If management does not like you, and you have seniority, the best thing to do is ask to stay every day. They will try to send you home ASAP.

I disagree. We do it all the time. I`m senior if I want to go,I go before someone junior.Same for if I want to stay. Numbers be damned. If it`s been a long day I`m going to stay while Mr. New to the Board skates on out,no way,no how. No favoritism. If that was the case I would never leave. I`m not hated,I`m actually liked especially because I get the work done. But when it`s time to go,It`s time to go.

 

[happybob]

We've run into the same problem in the past. You have 25 runs, with 27 drivers. Who goes home? Union president told us seniority only gives you the right to work, not go home. The cover drivers get to pick which route they want to do, ask that driver if he/she wants to go home. Don't like it, but, you can't fight city hall. A decision from a panel would help in this regard.

 

[cachsux]

Well in package I was one of the top 2 swing drivers,top 1/3 of the board overall. If a driver wanted the day off above and beyond who was on vacation they would let us know and we would take it out. But if we were unassigned for the week and wanted the day off ourselves and we had seniority over anyone who wanted the day off,we walked. In feeder I`m top 25% so if I and a junior driver walk in the dispatch and they want to cut someone loose I decide which I`ll do,stay or go. the junior guy will get whats left of the two. Maybe it`s a 705 thing buts it`s always been that way while I`ve been here. I was junior guy and took what was given to me,good or bad. Now I`m at the top and I`ll be damned if I work or go in the place of someone junior. Not that I hate junior folks but we all got to put in our time to get the rewards.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I disagree. We do it all the time. I`m senior if I want to go,I go before someone junior.Same for if I want to stay. Numbers be damned. If it`s been a long day I`m going to stay while Mr. New to the Board skates on out,no way,no how. No favoritism. If that was the case I would never leave. I`m not hated,I`m actually liked especially because I get the work done. But when it`s time to go,It`s time to go.

You completely missed the point.

I do not disagree with you, as I have taken that option to NOT work also and management went by seniority also. That is fine.

But the CONTRACT says nothing about NOT working by seniority, therefore it is UPS's discretion WHO they ask to go home by seniority. You cannot argue that.

You cannot file a grievance because UPS asked someone with less seniority to go home before they asked you, for ex

 

[Jones]

You completely missed the point.

I do not disagree with you, as I have taken that option to NOT work also and management went by seniority also. That is fine.

But the CONTRACT says nothing about NOT working by seniority, therefore it is UPS's discretion WHO they ask to go home by seniority. You cannot argue that.

You cannot file a grievance because UPS asked someone with less seniority to go home before they asked you, for ex

This is from the Atlantic Area supplement:
"Seniority, as measured by length of continuous service with the Company, shall prevail at all times."

That covers any situation not specifically spelled out in the contract, including who gets to go home first. Like Cach said, it's a simple concept.