Glad to pay union dues

[brownIEman]

10 years ago when our stock went public and split, several management people in my building became millionares on paper.

I got a $.65 per hour raise, per the labor agreement.

I didnt complain. I got what I was entitled to, while my management team was rewarded for the risks they took and the career choices they made.

Now that the worm has turned, I'm still not complaining...but I dont want to hear any whining from the former millionares, either. They are simply seeing the other side of the coin that they chose to flip.

IMHO the job of a CEO is to lead by example. I have very little respect for the example that Scott Davis is choosing to set. The pay raise he granted himself is quite literally coming out of the pockets of the people beneath him.

The example he is setting is that he is getting compensated to a level way below what his peers in other companies make while his company pays the back bone of its work force WELL above what their peers (bad word actually, UPS drivers have no peers) in other companies make. Why would you have no respect for that example?

and just IMHO, sober, from my experience there really seems to be little to no humble in any of your opinions

 

[brownIEman]

What part of your body do you have Scott's name tattooed?

what part of my comment was factually in error?

 

[jimstud]

you know brownIEman i don't ever remember any teamsters whining when you sups where banging outrageous stock bonuses durning the late 80's thru the 90's and the fact is ups is still making a tidy little profit.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Scott Davis still managed to nearly double his salary so I don't want to hear any complaints on his behalf. If we lost 49% from last year (which is still a huge gain) during a recession then that is definitely a good sign. And it cutting costs is all good but what UPS and the bean counters in IE are taking advantage of (more like exploiting) the situation by violating the contract and jamming more and more work down our throats. IE shouldn't have so much power. You guys are ruining this company. Its all a numbers game with you. The pride of working for the delivery company that provides that best customer service has been replaced with the selfish need to wave that golden spreadsheet in the IE supervisor's face.

 

[pretzel_man]

$445 million PROFIT! Isn't that after salaries, expenses, etc? While yes it is less than last year it is still PROFIT!
It was not a loss.
That's not the same as your "take home pay going down".
If your spouse lost her job, (if you had one) or getting bumped back to the hub with the pay reduction would cause someone's pay to go down.

$800 million vs $445 million is like getting your run cut from 60 hrs wk to 50 because in a sense OT is bonus money anyway and one shouldn't count on it.

While Scott Davis may be " making well below the average for people of his 'rank' at comparable companies" didn't he know that going in?
(let's not even get into banker's salaries).

Blue:

Actually at some level it kinda is like having your pay reduced...

UPS does not make a profit passively. It takes capital (money) and that money comes from investors. People have money invested in this company with a hope of a return. Profit drives that return.

Some of those people have invested money so they can retire. Some for their children's college. Maybe others for a vacation. In any case, those people saw the same investment return a drastic drop in profit year to year.

Do they have a right to complain. Of course not. They knew that investing in a company is risky. If they wanted no risk, they could have put their money in a CD or other safe investment.

Nonetheless, its still painful to see hopes and dreams stalled because of a recession that has reduced profit and investment value considerably.

Don't take that as a complaint.

P-Man

 

[cachsux]

The company went from 800 to 445 in PROFIT. It does not say money was not made. If the company spends money on things differently from the prior year,such as the new building in Canada,then the level of profit will change as compared to a year they did not spend as much.

 

[bluehdmc]

Look, there have been drastic changes in the operations this year. All I am saying is this company is making 49% less than it did last year and there SHOULD be drastic changes. If you took home 49% less than last year you would make drastic changes in your lifestyle, as you should. So why would anyone say to UPS, you still made plenty of money this quarte, so what if it was half what you made last year it is fine. If I told one of the laid of drivers in my preload "hey, you should be happy with the paycheck you are taking home now, so what if it is 49% less than you where making before, you are still making money", he would think I was a jackass, and rightly so. Those people who get whine about the operational changes UPS is making and say "hey, UPS is making money, they should be happy about it, who cares if it is 49% less than last year" are quite frankly displaying a tad bit of jackassery.

Reducing someone's pay by 49% vs 49% reduction in profit are 2 different things. Now if my mortgage, utilities, and other household expenses are paid for and my DISCRETIONARY income, (money for say entertainment, toys, etc.) is reduced by 49% that would be a better comparison IMHO.

Also if you truly want to "lead by example" regardless of whether your pay is below that of your industry peers, don't give yourself a $5million pay raise!
As I said earlier, Scott Davis knew when he accepted the position that what the pay was.

 

[bluehdmc]

Blue:

Actually at some level it kinda is like having your pay reduced...

UPS does not make a profit passively. It takes capital (money) and that money comes from investors. People have money invested in this company with a hope of a return. Profit drives that return.

Some of those people have invested money so they can retire. Some for their children's college. Maybe others for a vacation. In any case, those people saw the same investment return a drastic drop in profit year to year.

Do they have a right to complain. Of course not. They knew that investing in a company is risky. If they wanted no risk, they could have put their money in a CD or other safe investment.

Nonetheless, its still painful to see hopes and dreams stalled because of a recession that has reduced profit and investment value considerably.

Don't take that as a complaint.

P-Man

I agree at some level it is like having your pay reduced, as I said in another post it is like reducing my discretionary income. This is not the same as reducing my pay by 49%

I understand UPS does not make profit passively and investors expect a return on investment. As someone told me once, stocks go up and stocks go down. Also are you looking for the return from the rise in stock price or dividends, (ex: growth vs income mutual funds).

There is still a "risk" involved in CD or other "safe" investments, (even FDIC insured ones). While the isn't the risk of principle, there's inflationary risk, stocks tend to keep better pace with inflation, but money invested in a CD at 2% is a "loss" if inflation is 5%.

 

[pretzel_man]

I agree at some level it is like having your pay reduced, as I said in another post it is like reducing my discretionary income. This is not the same as reducing my pay by 49%

I understand UPS does not make profit passively and investors expect a return on investment. As someone told me once, stocks go up and stocks go down. Also are you looking for the return from the rise in stock price or dividends, (ex: growth vs income mutual funds).

There is still a "risk" involved in CD or other "safe" investments, (even FDIC insured ones). While the isn't the risk of principle, there's inflationary risk, stocks tend to keep better pace with inflation, but money invested in a CD at 2% is a "loss" if inflation is 5%.

Blue:

What if it was your IRA? What if you expected that investment to carry you through retirement? That reduction in profit means that there is much less there than one thought...

Think of it this way. At some level, your own retirement is invested in the stock market. Hopefully, the people investing it has a very good portfolio.

If the stocks that your own pension is invested in go down significantly (due to loss of profits), you pension would be affected.

Loss of profit isn't really just discretionary income.

P-Man

 

[DS]

and yet Scott Davis still makes well below the average for people at his rank in comparable companies, so he can claim he is doing his part to help the company's health and therefor to help all who make their living from the company. Can you say the same?

What is acceptable ? If he made a mere $1million a year and made ups a better place to work then I would agree.(that is more than enough to live like a king)Comparing how many millions he makes compared to other companies means squat to the ones that truly care.All the cutbacks that affect us so the ones at the top can be multi millionaires in this so called recession are unnecessarily founded greed that only hurts our customers.

jmo

 

[noway]

couple points.

UPS did not make 800 million profit last quarter, it was 445, which is a reduction of 49% over the prior year. If your take home pay went down by 49%, you would likely do some drastic things as well, or at least you should.

Your sup is either mis-informed or not being truthful about the bonus, there has been no announcement about that. Yet.

MIP will likely be here this year, as it is based on profit and we are still making that. It will be smaller than in years past, undoubtedly.

I do agree with sober on one point, the sup certainly should not have spent the day bitching to you about all that. That is not his job and you have enough to deal with without having to listen to all that.

Thought I was losing it, had to double check. Went to UPSers and pulled up last qtr's report. I was a little off. Copied it straight from the page to here.

"UPS today reported operating profit of $895 million on a 16.7% revenue decline for the second quarter ended June 30." I am sure they can make this sound worse than it is. Most companies are losing money, UPS is not.

Clearly brownIEman was using IE math in his responce.

Maybe I made the sup sound worse than I should of, I was part of the conversation too. My point was we need the protection the Union offers us. If this is how the comapny treats their own, what would they do to us if they could.

 

[MobileBA]

Would it surprise anyone that UPS manipulated last quarter earnings for all the obvious cynical reasons!

 

[bluehdmc]

Would it surprise anyone that UPS manipulated last quarter earnings for all the obvious cynical reasons!

Someone at UPS manipulate numbers? Say it ain't so!

 

[1989]

Your supervisor needs to quit complaining about his pay cut. Scott Davis just gave himself a multimillion dollar raise. That money has to come from somewhere. Sometimes, we all just have to be willing to suck it up and take one for the team.

The board of directors make the determination of what the CEO makes.
John Thompson ; Duane Ackerman ; Stuart Eizenstat are who you should send your complaints. They make up the compensation commitee.

 

[bluehdmc]

Blue:

What if it was your IRA? What if you expected that investment to carry you through retirement? That reduction in profit means that there is much less there than one thought...

Think of it this way. At some level, your own retirement is invested in the stock market. Hopefully, the people investing it has a very good portfolio.

If the stocks that your own pension is invested in go down significantly (due to loss of profits), you pension would be affected.

Loss of profit isn't really just discretionary income.

P-Man

There is a recession going on, most peoples pensions have gone down. I live in NJ and the pension for state workers has lost value.

This is not the first recession and probably won't be the last. As I said before stocks go up and stocks go down, that's the nature of the stock market, some of which really has no bearing on the company represented by the stock, just market sentiments.

It's not a "loss" in your portfolio unless you sell the stock, I bought a blue chip stock at @ $67 a share, (last fall), before the recession hit it was trading at @ $120, that's about where it is now. The person who sold the stock last fall lost money, the person who bought it gained, (only if they were to sell now), wish I had bought more. It has also paid a dividend since I've purchased it.

When the market goes down it's a "buying" opportunity. If you have investments in the stock market and can weather the storm you're ok. If you're the poor guy who retired last fall and started drawing money out your hurting.

It's the same with the real estate market and other investments. Some work in reverse of the stock market like precious metals. Gold was $800 an ounce a couple of years ago now it's $1000.

 

[1989]

There is a recession going on, most peoples pensions have gone down. I live in NJ and the pension for state workers has lost value.

This is not the first recession and probably won't be the last. As I said before stocks go up and stocks go down, that's the nature of the stock market, some of which really has no bearing on the company represented by the stock, just market sentiments.

It's not a "loss" in your portfolio unless you sell the stock, I bought a blue chip stock at @ $67 a share, (last fall), before the recession hit it was trading at @ $120, that's about where it is now. The person who sold the stock last fall lost money, the person who bought it gained, (only if they were to sell now), wish I had bought more. It has also paid a dividend since I've purchased it.

When the market goes down it's a "buying" opportunity. If you have investments in the stock market and can weather the storm you're ok. If you're the poor guy who retired last fall and started drawing money out your hurting.

It's the same with the real estate market and other investments. Some work in reverse of the stock market like precious metals. Gold was $800 an ounce a couple of years ago now it's $1000.

Sounds like that stock is hitting a resistance level. Maybe time to sell. You said it yourself, you only make money when you sell.

 

[pemanager]

Thought I was losing it, had to double check. Went to UPSers and pulled up last qtr's report. I was a little off. Copied it straight from the page to here.

"UPS today reported operating profit of $895 million on a 16.7% revenue decline for the second quarter ended June 30." I am sure they can make this sound worse than it is. Most companies are losing money, UPS is not.

Clearly brownIEman was using IE math in his responce.

Maybe I made the sup sound worse than I should of, I was part of the conversation too. My point was we need the protection the Union offers us. If this is how the comapny treats their own, what would they do to us if they could.

BrownIEman was most likely using the after tax net profit number. Whichever number you look at it has gone down substantially.

 

[I GOT ONE MORE]

If 445 million is correct, than that's 1.2 million per day, every day of the year.

Now, that is definitely down from prior years...... and the economy is down and suffering, but I am happy and proud to be employed by a company still making bank during a tumultuous time and responding to a potential fiscal calamity that could be manifesting.

Did I use enough big words?

 

[bluehdmc]

If 445 million is correct, than that's 1.2 million per day, every day of the year.

Now, that is definitely down from prior years...... and the economy is down and suffering, but I am happy and proud to be employed by a company still making bank during a tumultuous time and responding to a potential fiscal calamity that could be manifesting.

Did I use enough big words?

Yes your words were big enough, the math was off. If the 445 million is the true after tax figure that almost 5 million dollars a day. the 446 million is the quarterly profit.

 

[I GOT ONE MORE]

Yes your words were big enough, the math was off. If the 445 million is the true after tax figure that almost 5 million dollars a day. the 446 million is the quarterly profit.

My bad!

You are very correct.

must multiply my numbers by 4