Glad to pay union dues

[BrownArmy]

..."hey, UPS is making money, they should be happy about it, who cares if it is 49% less than last year" are quite frankly displaying a tad bit of jackassery.

Jackassery is my new favorite word. It will be difficult to work into conversation, but it will be worth the wait...

(not bustin' on you brownIEman, that's really my new favorite word...my tummy hurts from laughing.)

 

[brownIEman]

Thought I was losing it, had to double check. Went to UPSers and pulled up last qtr's report. I was a little off. Copied it straight from the page to here.

"UPS today reported operating profit of $895 million on a 16.7% revenue decline for the second quarter ended June 30." I am sure they can make this sound worse than it is. Most companies are losing money, UPS is not.

Clearly brownIEman was using IE math in his responce.

Maybe I made the sup sound worse than I should of, I was part of the conversation too. My point was we need the protection the Union offers us. If this is how the comapny treats their own, what would they do to us if they could.

I was using the net profit, which is a different beast that the operating profit. The operating profit still has costs not included, such as corporate income tax. If saying true profit is what we make AFTER we pay uncle Sam is a cynical manipulation, then I suppose that is what I did. Is someone going to try and claim that payment is optional?

And, to the thread title, you should be happy to pay union dues, they are the primary reason you make more than anyone in your industry. My point is that the gap is growing, and that UPS is already not able to compete on price with competition very well. If the gap continues to grow at the rate it is, we are in serious trouble. Again, I will ask, how many good union jobs does anyone think UPS will provide when our market share gets to 0%?

 

[DenverBrownDotCom]

Don't forget in this discussion about profit, and management that Brown thinks of it's management team as overhead. In '95 they bought out hundreds of supervisors to decrease the companies overhead. With the implementation of the new technologies the sups. are again overhead. Everyone panics at the new technologies, but they are there to eliminate overhead. Used to be 1 sup per 7 drivers. We're now 1 per 30 in our building and increasing. We need to keep this company solvent. We need to get on the Supervisor elimination bandwagon that upper level management is on. They are afterall just overhead. Sad but true.

 

[Highwayman]

Jackassery!

 

[NHDRVR]

Jackassery!

second

 

[brownIEman]

Jackassery is my new favorite word. It will be difficult to work into conversation, but it will be worth the wait...

(not bustin' on you brownIEman, that's really my new favorite word...my tummy hurts from laughing.)

Glad you like it. Jackassery(tm) does sorta have a nice ring to it now that I think about it. Now, just so we are clear, I have trade marked Jackassery(tm) and I will have final say on how and when it may be used ( and yes, I am aware of the irony that by doing so, I am engaging in a fair level of, well Jackassery(tm))

Now, here are the rules. For my extended family of UPSERS, all UPSERS, you have absolute unlimited use of the term Jackassery(tm) any time, in any media, print, written, spoken recorded, whatever. But for all others, there will be a 1/4 of one cent charge for each and every usage of Jackassery(tm). To be collected once 400 such usages have acrued. For each 400 usage your families and friends get to, I will expect you to collect one dollar from them and donate said dollar to any of the following:
The UPS Foundation,
The Annie E Casey Foundation,
United Way
Your local Good 'ol Boys (or Girls) Charity Beer Fund,
Or any noble effort indended to better the human condition of your choosing.

 

[moreluck]

I'm tired of dealing with Obama's jackassery (tm) !!

 

[brownIEman]

Reducing someone's pay by 49% vs 49% reduction in profit are 2 different things. Now if my mortgage, utilities, and other household expenses are paid for and my DISCRETIONARY income, (money for say entertainment, toys, etc.) is reduced by 49% that would be a better comparison IMHO.

Also if you truly want to "lead by example" regardless of whether your pay is below that of your industry peers, don't give yourself a $5million pay raise!
As I said earlier, Scott Davis knew when he accepted the position that what the pay was.

I realized one problem with your analogy. At first I tended to agree with you that yes, profit is like discretionary income after your bills are paid. I would have still argued that even if your discretionary income were to be reduced by 49%, you would make some pretty drastic changes in your lifestyle. Then I got to thinking how that "discretionary income" is spent. For you or I, it might go to a vacation, or a bigscreen TV, or maybe even a boat or recreational items. For UPS, that "discretionary" income goes to things like new facilities, new package cars, new planes, training facilities, expansions into new markets or areas of business. So sure, it is more like discretionary income after bills, but before things like contributions to your retirement fund, investment in land for your retirement years, or say your kids college funds. So, I again would ask, if the money you took home after bills to basically invest in your future went down by 49%, would you look to make drastic changes, or not?

 

[brownIEman]

Reducing someone's pay by 49% vs 49% reduction in profit are 2 different things. Now if my mortgage, utilities, and other household expenses are paid for and my DISCRETIONARY income, (money for say entertainment, toys, etc.) is reduced by 49% that would be a better comparison IMHO.

Also if you truly want to "lead by example" regardless of whether your pay is below that of your industry peers, don't give yourself a $5million pay raise!
As I said earlier, Scott Davis knew when he accepted the position that what the pay was.

ok. Just to be clear. I like to play devils advocate, and in some of these posts about Scott's pay hike that is what I have been doing. To be honest, I really am not hung up on his pay. I am and have been impressed by the tradition of humility that has always accompanied the office of CEO at UPS as compared to the self important twits at other companies. That said, I will say, if you want to talk about "leading by example" truly I have a better place to talk about this than you as a service provider do. Remember, you got a raise this year, despite the economy, I did not. So while I really don't have a huge issue with the correction of his comparitave compensation level, I will admit that the timing of it, coming as it did on the heals of the rest of management getting zippo for raises, does indeed smell a bit of... wait for it... jackassery(tm).

 

[jimstud]

ok. Just to be clear. I like to play devils advocate, and in some of these posts about Scott's pay hike that is what I have been doing. To be honest, I really am not hung up on his pay. I am and have been impressed by the tradition of humility that has always accompanied the office of CEO at UPS as compared to the self important twits at other companies. That said, I will say, if you want to talk about "leading by example" truly I have a better place to talk about this than you as a service provider do. Remember, you got a raise this year, despite the economy, I did not. So while I really don't have a huge issue with the correction of his comparitave compensation level, I will admit that the timing of it, coming as it did on the heals of the rest of management getting zippo for raises, does indeed smell a bit of... wait for it... jackassery(tm).

bulls*** that is what that is , are you forgetting mr davis' stock bonus. you are right as far as ceo's go his pay is substandard but that is just his base pay jim kelley's last year he was given 22 million in stock that more than makes up for his paltry 4 million he made.you keep forgeting corporate jets lavish retreats and all the other horsesh** that goes along with being a corporate big shot.so stop saying the writing is on the wall and all us lowly teamsters, that keep the cardboard moving are going to have accept cut backs.

 

[pretzel_man]

bulls*** that is what that is , are you forgetting mr davis' stock bonus. you are right as far as ceo's go his pay is substandard but that is just his base pay jim kelley's last year he was given 22 million in stock that more than makes up for his paltry 4 million he made.you keep forgeting corporate jets lavish retreats and all the other horsesh** that goes along with being a corporate big shot.so stop saying the writing is on the wall and all us lowly teamsters, that keep the cardboard moving are going to have accept cut backs.

Do you care to back up your statements with some proof??

I certainly do not remember Jim Kelly getting $22M. I searched around and found him getting about $2M.

There are no corporate jets.

Where are the lavish retreats?

Unless your intent was just rhetoric, please post some proof.

P-Man

 

[Catatonic]

bulls*** that is what that is , are you forgetting mr davis' stock bonus. you are right as far as ceo's go his pay is substandard but that is just his base pay jim kelley's last year he was given 22 million in stock that more than makes up for his paltry 4 million he made.you keep forgeting corporate jets lavish retreats and all the other horsesh** that goes along with being a corporate big shot.so stop saying the writing is on the wall and all us lowly teamsters, that keep the cardboard moving are going to have accept cut backs.

Giving the Teamster's a black eye making up stuff like that ... so outrageous it's just laughable.

But I bet you do well on the picket line.

 

[brownIEman]

bulls*** that is what that is , are you forgetting mr davis' stock bonus. you are right as far as ceo's go his pay is substandard but that is just his base pay jim kelley's last year he was given 22 million in stock that more than makes up for his paltry 4 million he made.you keep forgeting corporate jets lavish retreats and all the other horsesh** that goes along with being a corporate big shot.so stop saying the writing is on the wall and all us lowly teamsters, that keep the cardboard moving are going to have accept cut backs.

Exactly. Corporate jets, lavish retreats, and all the other horsesh** that other CEO's get into that UPS CEO's traditionally have NEVER partaken of. That is what I am talking about when I say their humility in comparison with their peers.

Can you show any evidence of Scott Davis jaunting around to lavish retreats in a corporate jet? Or proof that Kelly ever got anywhere near a 22 million stock bonus?

 

[bluehdmc]

I realized one problem with your analogy. At first I tended to agree with you that yes, profit is like discretionary income after your bills are paid. I would have still argued that even if your discretionary income were to be reduced by 49%, you would make some pretty drastic changes in your lifestyle. Then I got to thinking how that "discretionary income" is spent. For you or I, it might go to a vacation, or a bigscreen TV, or maybe even a boat or recreational items. For UPS, that "discretionary" income goes to things like new facilities, new package cars, new planes, training facilities, expansions into new markets or areas of business. So sure, it is more like discretionary income after bills, but before things like contributions to your retirement fund, investment in land for your retirement years, or say your kids college funds. So, I again would ask, if the money you took home after bills to basically invest in your future went down by 49%, would you look to make drastic changes, or not?

Is money invested in new facilities, vehicles, planes, etc taken out of aftertax profit? Or are these charges taken before gross profit is determined? I'm not an accountant and I understand they pay acct's big bucks to figure how to draw down these figures to lessen the corporate tax burden.
I would think the after tax profit would be used for a prudent reserve, to buyback outstanding shares of stock to pay dividends and bonuses.
Also I passed a poster that said something about 436,000 UPSers. That works out to about $1000+ plus PROFIT per employee the last quarter.
To be posting reasonable returns in the present economy is fantastic.
We're MAKING MONEY, how many other companies can say that?
How does that compare with Fedex our biggest competitor? Didn't they lose money last quarter, many companies are flat.
Remember what I said about emotions and stock purchases? People were still buying the old GM even though it was bankrupt and virtually worthless. Maybe they wanted the certificates to wallpaper a room

 

[jimstud]

Giving the Teamster's a black eye making up stuff like that ... so outrageous it's just laughable.

But I bet you do well on the picket line.

you prove to me it is outrageous, i go by supervisor mentality guilty till proven otherwise. i stand by what i said about kelley. i remember that muttering stuttering maroon on meet the press right before the strike in 97 crying about drivers making 70k a year,what a joke.they brought up his pay ratethat is where i got my numbers from. prove me wrong. and you are right i am a great guy to have next to you on the picket line.and another thing till ups is breaking even or losing money i want and deserve a raise every year because my brothers and i make ups their money.

 

[pretzel_man]

you prove to me it is outrageous, i go by supervisor mentality guilty till proven otherwise. i stand by what i said about kelley. i remember that muttering stuttering maroon on meet the press right before the strike in 97 crying about drivers making 70k a year,what a joke.they brought up his pay ratethat is where i got my numbers from. prove me wrong. and you are right i am a great guy to have next to you on the picket line.and another thing till ups is breaking even or losing money i want and deserve a raise every year because my brothers and i make ups their money.

Let me get your position straight....

First you post ridiculous and inaccurate information. Instead of checking your facts, you say that you stand by your comments. You will stand by your comments until someone else proves you wrong....

You complain that UPS supervisors make you guilty until proven innocent. Then you do the exact thing you complain about. I guess you were never taught that two wrongs don't make a right?

Here is a quote from the Atlanta Business Chronicle:

"James Kelly made $1,617,567 in base salary, bonus, other compensation and stock options in 2001. Kelly's total compensation in 2000 was $1,584,453. Kelly retired in January 2002, but continues to serve on the company's board."

I don't know how to dispute your comment on Corporate Jets and lavish retreats. They don't exist and I cannot prove a negative.

Do you care to take back your comments or do you still stand by them?

P-Man

 

[UnconTROLLed]

lol

 

[jimstud]

Let me get your position straight....

First you post ridiculous and inaccurate information. Instead of checking your facts, you say that you stand by your comments. You will stand by your comments until someone else proves you wrong....

You complain that UPS supervisors make you guilty until proven innocent. Then you do the exact thing you complain about. I guess you were never taught that two wrongs don't make a right?

Here is a quote from the Atlanta Business Chronicle:

"James Kelly made $1,617,567 in base salary, bonus, other compensation and stock options in 2001. Kelly's total compensation in 2000 was $1,584,453. Kelly retired in January 2002, but continues to serve on the company's board."

I don't know how to dispute your comment on Corporate Jets and lavish retreats. They don't exist and I cannot prove a negative.

Do you care to take back your comments or do you still stand by them?

P-Man

explain to me why i should take anything you posted as fact ? all you are is a made up name on a computer screen and a ups supervisor too boot. would you like to know why i think all ups supervisors are lying scumbag dogs? the first words out of a supervisors mouth to me was a lie and that pattern has continued pretty much the same for the past 22 years. " jim in one year we will put you on the road." well it was only 6 years of getting up at 4 am to load 4 brownies and have some part time butthole scream in my ear faster, faster that i finally got my shot at fulltime.in the past 22 years especially the past 16 of full time i watched supervisors lie ,cheat and otherwise treat people like smile*. and it all comes from the top down,we all have seen the march memo. FIND ONE DRIVER HANG HIM OUT TO DRY AND THE REST WILL FALL IN LINE.real class company ups is . that is why i am glad to pay union dues.
.

 

[pretzel_man]

explain to me why i should take anything you posted as fact ? all you are is a made up name on a computer screen and a ups supervisor too boot. would you like to know why i think all ups supervisors are lying scumbag dogs? the first words out of a supervisors mouth to me was a lie and that pattern has continued pretty much the same for the past 22 years. " jim in one year we will put you on the road." well it was only 6 years of getting up at 4 am to load 4 brownies and have some part time butthole scream in my ear faster, faster that i finally got my shot at fulltime.in the past 22 years especially the past 16 of full time i watched supervisors lie ,cheat and otherwise treat people like smile*. and it all comes from the top down,we all have seen the march memo. FIND ONE DRIVER HANG HIM OUT TO DRY AND THE REST WILL FALL IN LINE.real class company ups is . that is why i am glad to pay union dues.
.

Jim:

I don't know what a supervisor did to you 22 years ago. Whatever it was, why do you think it okay to post a mis-truth yourself?

I posted my source. Did you look it up? I took the time to backup what I posted.

Again, rather than find out the facts, you choose to stick you your opinion regardless of the facts.

If you want to discuss how you were treated wrongly, fine... If you want to say that you are glad you're in the union and pay dues, I agree with you.

If you want to make up information.... Well, that's what you did.

P-Man

 

[Dragon]

JimStud - wronging the rights - righting the wrongs.....