G'mornin' UPSer's. There's new news out there in regards to the Amazon Effect

The new drivers will get $34 an hour. almost a 300% raise. A 90,000+ a year pension. And raises on top of their pay. Plus, nobody knows what will REALLY happen until the ink dries.

I would rather see 1500 people making $34 than 1000 people making $40. 1 full timer = more than $40,000 in benes alone. A $6 cut in wages saves maybe $20-$25K in wages.
They will be at 34 an hour in 5 years
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Is this guy a bot or what?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

ive got it folks we can solve this bot debate once and for alll.....



@Fitbit App :) what does this say



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Still no response? Shocker.
 

Heavy Package

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm totally confused.

So, what is it you guys actually want in this contract?

Sooooo, what is it you guys really want? All you do is complain. I see no substance to back this anger.

Here it is, dum-dum....

WHAT WE WANT

1. PT-Starting pay of $15/hr with a bonus or catch-up pay for current PT
2. Dispatches for package car drivers of 9.5 hr/day max with opt-out provision; 60-hr max work week year round
3. No subcontracting outside of peak season for feeder drivers; move loads off of the rails and add sleeper teams and jobs
4. Sat/Sun driving should be bid based on seniority with 1.5x pay for Saturday or 2x pay for Sundays; 2 consecutive days in a work week off
5. Raises of $1/hr per year minimum with no split raises for FT drivers
6. Maintain health and pension benefits
7. Less harassment

I don't need a damn booklet as thick as the Bible to summarize what we not only want but deserve. Any I would not budge on any of these items based on the Tax breaks and profitability / economic conditions that are currently happening at UPS.

Thread Over-Lock it down.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
Absolutely they will. Do the math. Benefits are the key.
How?

You have to compare the 22.4 progression to the regular driver progression.

The day they gain seniority, ups is on the hook for 40k, if they work. Just as a regular driver.
 

KOG72

I’m full of it
When UPS members were asked to provide the National Negotiating Committee with their requests for a new contract, the following items were most frequently raised from every Local Union:

  • Reduce the number of hours package car drivers are required to work;
  • Prevent the Company from forcing package car drivers to work weekends;
  • Ensure that package car drivers can take more time off; and
  • Protect our medical and pension plans.
I wasn’t asked anything
 
How?

You have to compare the 22.4 progression to the regular driver progression.

The day they gain seniority, ups is on the hook for 40k, if they work. Just as a regular driver.
They will eliminate other part time jobs. Many of the part timers are making more in benefits than they make on payday.

First they will do everything they can to reduce the regular drivers overtime then they will eliminate PM air drivers, they will only be making a buck or two more than them. Then they will work the unload or sort, yeah they will be making more per hour than those guys. But you need to factor in pay, benefits, holidays and vacations.
 

Returntosender

Well-Known Member
The one phrase management uses on you drivers. (We needed to make this change for the business.). FT drivers are going to a endangered species when these hybrids hit the road
 

DELACROIX

In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
The one phrase management uses on you drivers. (We needed to make this change for the business.). FT drivers are going to a endangered species when these hybrids hit the road

I can understand the reasoning for the Union to create more full time jobs, like they stated it would provide much needed funding into their Pension and Health and Welfare plans. The trouble I see with these proposed 22.4 positions is that their hourly rate will be always 6 dollars less than the established route driver, does anybody seriously thinks that UPS will not take advantage of any loop hole in the contract to start replacing vacated driving positions into the less paying 22.4 classifications. This is the company that after the "97" strike that tried to eliminate the contract language for creating all those 22.3 inside positions stating that they were losing business and were not required to fulfill their agreement. It took a year in arbitration to finally force them to live up their word.

I have yet to see the entire package, this is not a one issue contract. Look at the whole contract and then decide, still a lot of unknowns to be answered. Can they get a vote out before 1 August, I can not see it happening. First of all you cannot vote on something you know nothing about, can they inform the total membership with that short of a time frame..not. I have no issue with extending the contract till the supplements are settled, we did it with the 2013 one even with the Master being passed by only 4,100 votes nationwide. I have a hope that the Committee is finally going to settle some of the injustice with these Supplements.

I am worried about the voting percentages with this upcoming contract. Sure 93 percent voted for the strike authorization but nobody apparently knows the percentage of those who were eligible to vote. It generally runs under 50 percent, that figure should cause some concern because of International Bylaw that requires a certain percentage to vote down a national contract. It has been posted on this site before but if less than 50 percent of the members vote on a particular contract, it would require two/thirds of those voted to reject it, over 50 percent it is a straight vote. Also do not make the mistake to claim it is all about these hybrid driving positions, really look seriously at our raises, are they that much more than the last contract. The biggest jump in my pay was from Trump passing a tax reform bill, the general wage increase is substandard plain and simple. The part time positions will still be at poverty level, the constant turn over will not change. That leaves what kind of increases will be happening to EVERYBODY's Pension and better Health and Welfare packages. As of now we have no concrete information, except the committee claims that they made major improvements with both.
 

Benben

Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
Ok, I'm totally confused.
So, what is it you guys actually want in this contract? Don't just say all hybrid jobs as FT regular drivers. That's no different than what we have and would create only about 1500 jobs over the 5-year contract.
Certainly it isn't over new hires getting $13 an hr. You lifers here could care less what Alisa who starts on Founder's Day 2018 will make.
Sooooo, what is it you guys really want? All you do is complain. I see no substance to back this anger.

This has been going on for weeks. If you really don't know what we want you are not using the brains God gave you. Good lord man, you have been bitch slapped with the list so many times I lost count. Just give it up, you are a lost cause.
 

dudebro

Well-Known Member
Here it is, dum-dum....

WHAT WE WANT

1. PT-Starting pay of $15/hr with a bonus or catch-up pay for current PT
2. Dispatches for package car drivers of 9.5 hr/day max with opt-out provision; 60-hr max work week year round
3. No subcontracting outside of peak season for feeder drivers; move loads off of the rails and add sleeper teams and jobs
4. Sat/Sun driving should be bid based on seniority with 1.5x pay for Saturday or 2x pay for Sundays; 2 consecutive days in a work week off
5. Raises of $1/hr per year minimum with no split raises for FT drivers
6. Maintain health and pension benefits
7. Less harassment

I don't need a damn booklet as thick as the Bible to summarize what we not only want but deserve. Any I would not budge on any of these items based on the Tax breaks and profitability / economic conditions that are currently happening at UPS.

Thread Over-Lock it down.

If you refused to negotiate from this position, there would have to be a strike. And / or the company would look to break the union. You'd be advocating an all out war. Cooler heads would have to prevail.

There's no way it would ever be profitable to deliver low density stops on Sunday at $73 an hour straight time and $100+ after 8.
 

a911scanner

Well-Known Member
There's no way it would ever be profitable to deliver low density stops on Sunday at $73 an hour straight time and $100+ after 8.

Exactly! They aren't making money on Saturdays now, hence the reduction of drivers on road every Saturday. Why in the heck do they need to have Sundays as an option?

To that same point, we can't even get pt'ers to bid for 23 open utility T-Sat shifts now... what makes the IBT or UPS think they will have an influx of pt'ers want to be 22.4 drivers for less money.

We actually need logic to keep this company successful. not unicorns & rainbows (aka Orion & 22.4 jobs)
 

KoennenTiger

Well-Known Member
Exactly! They aren't making money on Saturdays now, hence the reduction of drivers on road every Saturday. Why in the heck do they need to have Sundays as an option?

To that same point, we can't even get pt'ers to bid for 23 open utility T-Sat shifts now... what makes the IBT or UPS think they will have an influx of pt'ers want to be 22.4 drivers for less money.

We actually need logic to keep this company successful. not unicorns & rainbows (aka Orion & 22.4 jobs)

No :censored2:. They can't hire guys who can do the job right now. I figured that meant it was a lock that we would get a good contract.

Isn't management supposed to be like so smart and good at figuring out how to keep the company staffed and running like a well oiled machine
 

DELACROIX

In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
Exactly! They aren't making money on Saturdays now, hence the reduction of drivers on road every Saturday. Why in the heck do they need to have Sundays as an option?

To that same point, we can't even get pt'ers to bid for 23 open utility T-Sat shifts now... what makes the IBT or UPS think they will have an influx of pt'ers want to be 22.4 drivers for less money.

We actually need logic to keep this company successful. not unicorns & rainbows (aka Orion & 22.4 jobs)

The pick of the liter for our current part time workforce is slim to none, they know what kind of physical work is involved and they do not want to do it for 8 or 10 hours, let alone the production standards and work environment required for a long term full time position like the hybrids. Most are going to be preload/driver, I worked the preload and it is no fun getting up at 2 am and start physically moving packages. It is a matter of time that your body pays the price, add that to the physical drain on your joints and stress of driving a package car. The job will be a young man's sport, others needn't apply. This will help with the underfunded Teamster controlled Pension and the H/W funding (a 20 year old hired off the street that will not be collecting from the Pension plans till 30 years or drain the Health and Welfare funds with age or physical issues. (Win-Win scenario).

Face it most of these Hybrids will be hired off the street and with the economy booming and wages increasing it will still be hard to get, train and release qualified newbies, let alone them staying and making a career out of it. Another consideration is that even with our 22.3's just how many do work a full eight hour shift. In our building a lot of the old ones leave in 4 or 5 hours, no issue with management, just pay then actual and 20 or 30 years down the line the ones who leave early daly will suffer with retirement benefits and have to work additional years to qualify for a service pension. This will happen to these Hybrid positions and thus the company has a part time driving position it has always lusted after, full time on paper but in reality not so.

The Saturday and possible Sunday shifts will more than likely be these Hybrids. The positive aspect of this is that the load quality and misload rates will go down with the employees loading their own trucks. Another one is not seeing all these (money-making) irregs continually being LIB (they are going to raise the rates again for over 70's soon), not even waiting for the end of the year?
 

Heavy Package

Well-Known Member
Exactly! They aren't making money on Saturdays now, hence the reduction of drivers on road every Saturday. Why in the heck do they need to have Sundays as an option?

I get what many people are saying on here. UPS rolled out Saturdays with huge fan-fare, balloons and cake. They rolled it back at my hub already (top 50 metro area) and everyone knew what a cluster it was.

My point is...Look at what we have being shoved down our throats now. It's not good. Saturday could at best be a break-even to start and be an investment UPS would have to suck up and put resources in to grow. Start with the top-10 or so metro areas in the country. Be smart about it. But oh hell no, not at UPS. Let's roll Saturday out to places like Fargo ND, and Muncie IN and wonder why it's a total turd.

What makes you think Sundays would be different - even in a 5-year timeframe? Still looking at top 20-25 metro areas at best. We are not going to profitably deliver ground on Sundays to places like Binghamton NY or Flagstaff AZ even in 5 yrs.
 

Heavy Package

Well-Known Member
it will still be hard to get, train and release qualified newbies, let alone them staying and making a career out of it.

This is a great point. Not only is the job very demanding, but it is the way UPS treats its people with the lack of dignity and respect that is killing the quality workforce.

One of the greatest initiatives they could do is to roll out AC in the package cars and AC boosters for people in the hubs to show that they care. But UPS doesn't care about its people. And the front-line employees are just plain fed up with the management style and corporate buzz words. It is just falling on deaf ears at this point.
 

KoennenTiger

Well-Known Member
This is a great point. Not only is the job very demanding, but it is the way UPS treats its people with the lack of dignity and respect that is killing the quality workforce.

One of the greatest initiatives they could do is to roll out AC in the package cars and AC boosters for people in the hubs to show that they care. But UPS doesn't care about its people. And the front-line employees are just plain fed up with the management style and corporate buzz words. It is just falling on deaf ears at this point.

I never could imagine myself grieving anyone when I first started. I figured I'd work everything through with integrity by being forthright and honest. After a few years of management's constant lies, deceit, theft, and complete and utter lack of integrity in everything they do I changed my mind.

Of course the scum that they are they continue to drone on about how integrity is so important. friend'kin ridiculous.
 
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