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<blockquote data-quote="BrownShark" data-source="post: 335319" data-attributes="member: 12148"><p>Have we prevailed? On the day when this speech was given?</p><p> </p><p>Have we prevailed since? Bush just asked congress to raise the debt for Iraq to $875 billion and rising..</p><p> </p><p>The speech, after reading, implies that the war is over, the military was victorious and all that was left was a mop up of a few hot spots.</p><p> </p><p>The ease that our troops blazed thru to Bagdad gave everyone a false sense of superiority. Once there, it was easy for the administration to declare victory, yet the commanders on the ground KNEW something was wrong. It was just too easy.</p><p> </p><p>They were right, the Iraqi's allowed the US to come deep into the country, then systematically attack the US military daily thru urban guerrilla tactics and thus put us in a quagmire that sees no end. The Iraqis knew they could not inflict as much damage or cause casualties man for man, machine for machine in a heads up battle, so they opted for a slow death of our troops.</p><p> </p><p>This was the lesson we as americans were suppose to learn after Vietnam.</p><p> </p><p>Those who believe we are winning and providing peace and security to Iraq have only diluted themselves in the rhetoric that keeps this war going. One only has to keep an eye on the daily totals of iraqi civilians killed and ask "are we really doing the right thing putting innocent people in the middle of a conflict that started between two men- Bush vs. Saddam"</p><p> </p><p>Why, if the people in Iraq had no quarrel with any american citizen and the citizens of the USA had no quarrel with any civilian in Iraq;why then must innocent men, women and children die for the sake of one mans argument with another man?</p><p> </p><p>If we believe that a conflict between leaders can result in the deaths of innocent civilians, then why are we upset over the american casualties suffered in the 911 attacks??</p><p> </p><p>One leader, Osama Bin Laden has a dispute with our goverment, not our people.</p><p> </p><p>He organizes attacks against legitimate military targets in the USA and civilians were killed. These attacks were acts of war but we call them murder, we drop large bombs in Iraq, miss our intended targets and kill civilians and we call them colateral damage?</p><p> </p><p>Is this right? How does the world view this hypocrisy?</p><p> </p><p>So many things have gone wrong in Iraq, almost every general who left the Iraqi theater has been critical of the handling of the war by the BUSH administration.</p><p> </p><p>Every top officer who disagrees with the Bush agenda has been removed or demoted. Each has been replaced by "YES" men who keep the war alive just to appease a president who seems to be clueless on combat operations.</p><p> </p><p>All I ask, is that people consider the amount of DEATH involved in this war. DEATH on both sides. "Freeing" a people shouldnt mean "freeing" them from life itself.</p><p> </p><p>Before we declare that we have won anything, we have to total what has been lost, only then can the summary of victory be established.</p><p> </p><p>Peace.<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BrownShark, post: 335319, member: 12148"] Have we prevailed? On the day when this speech was given? Have we prevailed since? Bush just asked congress to raise the debt for Iraq to $875 billion and rising.. The speech, after reading, implies that the war is over, the military was victorious and all that was left was a mop up of a few hot spots. The ease that our troops blazed thru to Bagdad gave everyone a false sense of superiority. Once there, it was easy for the administration to declare victory, yet the commanders on the ground KNEW something was wrong. It was just too easy. They were right, the Iraqi's allowed the US to come deep into the country, then systematically attack the US military daily thru urban guerrilla tactics and thus put us in a quagmire that sees no end. The Iraqis knew they could not inflict as much damage or cause casualties man for man, machine for machine in a heads up battle, so they opted for a slow death of our troops. This was the lesson we as americans were suppose to learn after Vietnam. Those who believe we are winning and providing peace and security to Iraq have only diluted themselves in the rhetoric that keeps this war going. One only has to keep an eye on the daily totals of iraqi civilians killed and ask "are we really doing the right thing putting innocent people in the middle of a conflict that started between two men- Bush vs. Saddam" Why, if the people in Iraq had no quarrel with any american citizen and the citizens of the USA had no quarrel with any civilian in Iraq;why then must innocent men, women and children die for the sake of one mans argument with another man? If we believe that a conflict between leaders can result in the deaths of innocent civilians, then why are we upset over the american casualties suffered in the 911 attacks?? One leader, Osama Bin Laden has a dispute with our goverment, not our people. He organizes attacks against legitimate military targets in the USA and civilians were killed. These attacks were acts of war but we call them murder, we drop large bombs in Iraq, miss our intended targets and kill civilians and we call them colateral damage? Is this right? How does the world view this hypocrisy? So many things have gone wrong in Iraq, almost every general who left the Iraqi theater has been critical of the handling of the war by the BUSH administration. Every top officer who disagrees with the Bush agenda has been removed or demoted. Each has been replaced by "YES" men who keep the war alive just to appease a president who seems to be clueless on combat operations. All I ask, is that people consider the amount of DEATH involved in this war. DEATH on both sides. "Freeing" a people shouldnt mean "freeing" them from life itself. Before we declare that we have won anything, we have to total what has been lost, only then can the summary of victory be established. Peace.:peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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