Has anyone been pulled into their center manager's office to recite the DOK question?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

BTW, upsdude, your statement that people who can rattle this stuff off are getting injured and crashing trucks is a generalization that is not necessarily true. I have 16 yrs safe driving and have not had a lost time injury in quite some time so you may want to check your "facts".

 

[Tony31yrs]

I hated the constant drilling of the Ketterer questions. When there was a rumor that they were coming, they would do it every day. If the air were late, they would do it so they could code it off and not have to eat the A.M. time. It's good info, but they cram it down your throat and want the exact words. I got sick of trying to memorize it. A good driver is going to practice good common sense anyway.
I hated the way they would talk safety and then try to rush you so much that you couldn't work safely and get it done. When they tried to get me to work faster, I told them that I had 20+ years of safe driving and was never hurt on the job. Why do you think that all the young guys and casuals are getting into accidents and getting hurt. They always stress safety until the paid over goes up.

 

[upsdude]

We are in the middle of a Keter audit and I was chosen for a driver interview. Our center manager had given us the heads up yesterday that they would be in town so I took out my DOK paperwork, did some quick reviewing, and while I did not recite them verbatim, I came very close; in fact, the auditor said I was very close to having helped my center receive a bonus point. It really did not take that long to grasp the basics and it made quite an impression on the auditor and my center manager. FYI, there is a new question dealing with yard control which doesn't really pertain to package car drivers (we are considered "non-certified") and the auditor explained it to me but did say that it will be added to our DOK in the near future. I also made sure to change my start time to the time that the interview started and to put the interview time in the DIAD under Other Work.

My point in this post is that the DOK questions are not going away and whether you choose to accept or reject that concept is entirely up to you. Previous posts have made good points on both sides of this topic but I have come to the realization that it is just going to be easier to know this material and go about my business.

I don't have a problem learning the stuff, actually, I use these methods each and everyday. I can't recite this information word for word. I've studied it, read it (On MY time many times), I just can't give them what they're looking for. We've been told over and over "Word for word or it doesn't count". The saga begins next week so we'll see how true to their "word" they are.

I also work in racing (Nascar sanctioned local track), I've written most all of the rules at my track for 5 divisions of racing. I still have to refer to the rule book from time to time when questions come up. Judges have an office full of law books so they can refer to them from time to time.

 

[upsdude]

BTW, upsdude, your statement that people who can rattle this stuff off are getting injured and crashing trucks is a generalization that is not necessarily true. I have 16 yrs safe driving and have not had a lost time injury in quite some time so you may want to check your "facts".

The "Facts" are that EVERY driver in my center that has suffered an injury or accident could recite the stuff during a post incident interview. That information came from both a management person and the CHSP hourly co-chair. The co-chair BTW has been involved in a vehicle accident (his fault). Is it the same in every center across the country? I have no idea. But as I posted in another thread, that's the Fact in my center.

Congrats on your 16 years, I have nearly 21 (all my years with UPS), I also brought a perfect driving record to UPS when I started, 34 years total.

Again, the UPS safe work methods are to me the best in the business. Most of these methods are things I was doing way before brown I just didn't know they had a name.

 

[1timepu]

I'm sorry you feel that management does not care about your safety. However whether you feel managements loving intentions or not will not change anything. You are required to know the information. this point is reinforced through the ketter audits. Its not going away. You're better off learning the information and moving on. Your union is not fighting this unless they feel they can make a legitimate case in saying that you were not given sufficent time to learn it. Otherwise your union will support it as safety training.

Tie I know the Ketter questions and Answers, the question I am raising is whether UPS is really concerned about your safety or is it a paper push to keep OSHA away. Like I said Fumes, Recovering from injuries at home, and bad weather are exceptions to UPS. Also while I am at it UPS could care less about your Family life, that goes for management and union. In fact Tie I have not had an accident in 20 years. In the 29 years I have never seen OSHA in our building and there has been accidents and incidents. Im locked into UPS, if I could I would leave in a heartbeat! The benefits and pay are great, but management isnt happy unless they harass you all the time. It gets old very quick. I am counting the days (5 years) till when I will leave, full pension and healthcare at 55, and I dont care what my personal situation is I AM LEAVING

 

[Hangingon]

Speaking of safety.. Several drivers of the older P-8's have been asking to have the grab rail lowered since the original placement is about 6 1/2 feet off the ground. A few of our ladies actually have to get onto the first step to reach the grab rail.
Everyone, center manager; safety; mechanic, all think it's a good idea but they can't lower them since that would be reconfiguring the cars which Corporate does not allow. I guess they'll just have to continue jumping up to grab the rail every time they enter the car.

 

[paidslave]

Re: Add ONs!

Got to disagree with you on that one. Arbitrators are just that....arbitrators. They are not union and not management. They generally have a law or business background. If the company can show that you were trained and the documentation is there to substantiate it,you were able to demonstrate it and the company followed up with you and retrained you if necessary... you will lose every time. If not everytime.....just once (ha! ha!)!

The arbitrator is looking to see if what is being discussed is reasonable and fair not if everything is documented word for word in the contract.

I didn't always know everything about the contract but I always tried to be reasonable and fair and use good common sense. Follow the "Golden Rules" and you don't have to worry about the contract.... somehow you will do the right thing.

I do agree with your response. However, as the business environment changes so do the methods..I believe a rational arbritrator will understand that. With that said, Ups has to give and show that the driver was given sufficient time and warning and or training to uphold disipline matters, not one day. Discipline needs to be carried out in a period of time to show that a reasonable time was given to suit the changing business environment. If the progressive discipline process ie: due process moves to quick this will be a very difficult sell!!

For example: if a driver is pulled in the office everyday over different issues, a reasonable time needs to be allowed for the driver to change and adapt to the changing environment! If the manager doesn't allow the time for change to happen most likely an arbritator will see this a mile away and the manager and Company will show their true colors!

With that said, Most normal people want to work with the company and not get disciplined. (Trust me nobody want to visit the manager)... and at the same time the company needs to allow change to occur and that is only given with time!

This is a golden rule!

my2cents!
Rome wasn't built in a day nor was UPS!
Anybody remember what happened to Niccolò Machiavelli?
Tieguys you may want to read up on his life!

I wouldn't want this to happen to you! Next life you will be named NIECGUYS!

We are all in this together!

God Bless and Good Night

 

[tieguy]

Tie I know the Ketter questions and Answers, the question I am raising is whether UPS is really concerned about your safety or is it a paper push to keep OSHA away. Like I said Fumes, Recovering from injuries at home, and bad weather are exceptions to UPS. Also while I am at it UPS could care less about your Family life, that goes for management and union. In fact Tie I have not had an accident in 20 years. In the 29 years I have never seen OSHA in our building and there has been accidents and incidents. Im locked into UPS, if I could I would leave in a heartbeat! The benefits and pay are great, but management isnt happy unless they harass you all the time. It gets old very quick. I am counting the days (5 years) till when I will leave, full pension and healthcare at 55, and I dont care what my personal situation is I AM LEAVING

If I could get a group of management people to post here I would probably recieve similar answers from many of them. Many of you do know the information and can probably explain it pretty well if you understand what you are asked. The hope is to get you to the point where you can explain it and also use it. Some of the ketter stuff is I admit downright goofy. Management shares many of the feelings displayed here. Lot of debate on what is the best way to teach it and what you should expect. However I think you have to look at the big picture here. We have many ways we train you. This is one form of training which can help you drive defensively and save lives. Take the angst out of it and roll with it. Resist the company on what you feel are unfair performance standards and chances are you will catch a sympathetic ear. Fight the company on what is actually training and I think you're in for a ride down a long hard road that leads you nowhere.

 

[currahee]

Speaking of safety.. Several drivers of the older P-8's have been asking to have the grab rail lowered since the original placement is about 6 1/2 feet off the ground. A few of our ladies actually have to get onto the first step to reach the grab rail.
Everyone, center manager; safety; mechanic, all think it's a good idea but they can't lower them since that would be reconfiguring the cars which Corporate does not allow. I guess they'll just have to continue jumping up to grab the rail every time they enter the car.

Im a short guy 5'7" and i had trouble reaching hand rail on my old p1000. I wasnt sure if they could lower so i wrote it up in DVIR. I came in the next day to find another installed lower at perfect height.

 

[over9five]

"... in fact, the auditor said I was very close to having helped my center receive a bonus point."

Wow. You must be very proud. And your manager must be very proud of you.

If you ever misdeliver a package, make sure you remind him of that bonus point you almost got him.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Over, ...forget it, you are not worth a response.

 

[over9five]

Ouch. Cut to the heart.

 

[rushfan]

In my feeder dept, there is no manager around at 2:00 am, so I haven't had to worry.

 

[LeddySS98]

I have to recite the whole list perfect on monday morning.. and if i cant i get sent home without pay... So i'm told

 

[Fnix]

I have to recite the whole list perfect on monday morning.. and if i cant i get sent home without pay... So i'm told

It's not hard especially when you're asked every day.

 

[browniehound]

Maybe everyone should take 10 minutes to read through the DOK list a couple of times before leaving the building in the morning and/or maybe another 10 minutes before you punch out at night. Do this every day and eventually some of it will be retained through repitition. You don't think they'd try to fire you for trying to learn, do you? Just my 2 cents.

Here is the problem I have with the DOK questions. They shouldn't be studied and memorized like we are taking a foriegn language test. It does us no good to have all this information in our head if we don't know how to apply it.

I think the majority of the good drivers can apply it without knowing it word for word, while the management team are required to know this stuff verbatim , but dosen't use it themselves when they drive.

We have the center manager telling use to imagine a target "baseball/dartboard" to "center our car" and for "smooth stops and turns", yet he has no idea what this really means himself. Just my opinion.

 

[Big Babooba]

Just recently our center manager has been randomly pulling drivers into the office and making every driver recite the DOK question. If you don't know them, your given a week to study. You don't know them the following week, It's a warning letter. Has any driver been harrassed with these questions?

There is a letter posted on our center's union bulletin board that a meeting was held with the division manager about this subject. According to the letter, we cannot be disciplined for not knowing the DOK material.

 

[over9five]

"I have to recite the whole list perfect on monday morning.. and if i cant i get sent home without pay... So i'm told"

Please don't believe that. There is no way that can happen. Make sure your shop steward is there.

 

[over9five]

Leddy, I'm beginning to feel they are harassing you because of your accident. Time to talk to the steward about filing a harassment grievance.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Here is the problem I have with the DOK questions. They shouldn't be studied and memorized like we are taking a foriegn language test. It does us no good to have all this information in our head if we don't know how to apply it.

I think the majority of the good drivers can apply it without knowing it word for word, while the management team are required to know this stuff verbatim , but dosen't use it themselves when they drive.

We have the center manager telling use to imagine a target "baseball/dartboard" to "center our car" and for "smooth stops and turns", yet he has no idea what this really means himself. Just my opinion.

Took the words out of my mouth!! This is exactly what I said this week, we just started on pas and our riders were instructed to also do a safety ride at the same time. He only found two errors on my part in two full day rides, I didn't honk often enough on my one back each day and he commented that I hardly ever back (I back once a day) and the other was not setting the park brake at lights and stop signs. YET I did not know the dok word for word even though I could explain it all in my own words and I obviously practice it. So...........I had to go in early the next morning and recite it, I studied for awhile and said it the best I could, haven't heard any more about it. It's stupid to have to recite something word for word when you obviously know and practice it.