He said, she said Termination

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by GeorgiaBrown, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Hello to all,

    I have been terminated after 21 years as a driver. I am on the verge of having a local hearing to determine the eventual outcome of my termination. The circumstances of my termination are as follows.
    I made a delivery attempt to a business location. The location was closed. The door was locked and no persons/vehicles were evident. The business had a placard stating that the day of delivery (Friday) was a closed day. I sheeted the package as closed holiday (yes, now I know it was incorrect to sheet it this way) I did not leave a delivery notice. The customer alleges that they were present all day that day. UPS does not believe me and insists that I did not attempt package, they state I am being fired for dishonesty, sheeting up package as closed holiday and evidently in their opinion not even going by business location. I MADE THE DELIVERY ATTEMPT!!!!! I have attempted to have GPS prove via my Diad that I was at the location at the time of delivery.... unsuccessful because GPS was not activated on my Diad at the time......Pulled my SPARCS and delivery records for the day in question and their is not evidence of the package even being attempted at all that day.... This is completely out of left field...... on the day I was terminated paperwork was shown to me where I sheeted the package as closed holiday... now it does not even exist in the paperwork.....It seems to me that someone is manipulating the records to keep me from being able to present a viable defense.....at this rate I have only my word vs. the customers and everyone who drives for UPS knows who management is gonna believe.....any solid advice would be apprecciated..... as far as sheeting up the package as closed holiday I would add that I have at least ten different locations on my route that I have sheeted this way over the last five years and have never ONCE been reprimanded on told not to do so....... for instance two hair salons that are always closed on Mondays...... In my opinion sheeting them this way does not deny the customer anything....in fact if offers the customer an additional delivery attempt.... as in CLOH, CLO1, CLO2, CLO3.......instead of CLO1,2,3...........I really feel as if I am being had here.....once again can anyone offer any sound advice... I am being represented by the shop steward but I am looking for any solid info I can to help with this.......

  2. filthpig

    filthpig Active Member

    I think the big one here is that you sheeted it CLH and didn't leave a note. If I have a stop that is closed Monday, I don't even go by. I sheet it CL1, scan and throw away the note. Never a problem. And if it's NDA, I make an attempt before commit and leave a note.
  3. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member


    I recognize that I should have probably sheeted the package as CLO1 instead of CLOH and yes I should have left a note.... but are those grounds for termination?.....after all I MADE THE ATTEMPT!
  4. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Perhaps to clarify the earlier post.... the customer in question wrote a letter to corporate complaining about no delivery attempt that day and because of corporate's involvement I am catching hell in spite of the fact that the customer was not there at the time I made the del attempt.
  5. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    CLO H is perfectly acceptable for a known closure. This way the pkg is recorded and the consignee is not charged with a delivery attempt. You don't have to scan an info notice for a CLO H. The best thing to do would be to get with your dispatch sup and have him designate those stops so that they are not loaded on the car. I have 3 of these stops but ask that they be loaded because there are times when there is someone there, even though the business is closed for the day. 2 of them are hair salons and sometimes they schedule appointments on the days when they are closed and I will catch them when they are there.

    Have you tried to track the 1Z? If you haven't then you should because that will show the progress of the package, to include the CLO H delivery attempt.

    Has this stop ever been an issue before on the day that they are closed?

    A corporate complaint for not making a delivery attempt on a known closure seems a bit over the top for me especially when you have proof that you made the attempt.

    Good luck and let us know how this turns out for you. Dave.
  6. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    We have a terrible time getting our dispatch sup to do his job...... I have never had any other issue with a CLO H package. I actually prefer to have the packages on car with me, because like you I sometimes am able to catch the customer in their shops on closed days because they may be there doing paperwork or other things.....I know most of my customer pretty well so I can spot the vehicles of the owners.....I have not tried to track the 1Z......UPS is saying that I made the attempt HOWEVER they are saying that I just sheeted it up closed in some random location and not at the customers address because I had previous knowledge that the stop was closed on Fridays...... this is incorrect assumption on their part...... I was not totally familiar with the hours of this customer because they infrequently get packages......less than ten total deliveries in over 5 years.....

    HEFFERNAN Huge Member

    Sorry to hear about what you've been dealing with. Eventhough Upstate says it is alright, in MOST centers you are not allowed to use CLOH during a non-holiday. Obviously, you have gotten away with that in the past few years and they had no reason to bust you over it.

    The problem obviously came with the Corporate Complaint being sent to your center. Even Atlanta feels it is not alright to just sheet a package CLOH. (I will not dwell on this topic, if you look, you will find a thread about this)

    You never mentioned how long you have been terminated? Considering it is not a cardinal sin, you will most likely just be suspended and not be paid for the days you missed. Also, I don't think I would ever be comfortable with a shop steward holding my fate. You better make sure your local's business agent is on the case and that you get the 1Z barcode for the package. This will tell you when you sheeted it and you can use SPARCS to show where you were when you did.
  8. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    CLH is for Holidays Ni1 , Cl1 are for ever other day. Your telling us that you used CLH just so you wouldn't have to scan a delivery notice?

    I wouldn't worry about it to much you shouldn't have a problem getting your job back. Well unless there are other things that your not telling use.

    In the future remember CYA
  9. brown bomber

    brown bomber brown bomber

    what about a school that's closed due to a snow day....the teachers and staff consider it a holiday.......or should I drive into the unplowed lot to leave a notice, and risk getting stuck....just wondering
  10. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    Obvious question here and no one has asked it that I saw. Are you on PAS and do you have ODSe (gps function) yet? That would prove where you were at.
  11. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member


    We are on PAS and no we are not active with ODSe on a full time basis.......... center management only activates it on occaisions when they suspect a driver is off area or killing unnecessary time......this is what I was told....Over the last couple of years there have been a couple of times when it was active on my board...but not for the entire day.... (you get the bullseye prompt and the unusual beep when GPS tells you that you are not close to the scanned address)....We are a very large center and I am told by my on-road sup, who I have a good relationship with, that the center computer system crashes when more than 4 diads are activated at a time for GPS use......
  12. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    We run all of our routes on ODSe 100% of the time. We aren't a large center but have quite few more than 4 rtes. I suspect that they aren't being 100% honest.
  13. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Unfortunately I could really use that info to clear my name.... I have my suspicions as well but I can't make them deliver information which they say they don't have....
  14. Dustyroads

    Dustyroads New Member

    At our center, for a long time we used cloH for businesses closed on certain scheduled days and schools closed for spring break/christmas. About a year ago, they changed the rules on that. Clo H was only to be used on legal holidays where UPS was working, such as Martin Luther King Day. Closed schools became futures, and doctors and beauty shops closed on certain days are just NI1. Ever changing rules. It's funny, things that were normal policy before, they fire you for now. And things that one used to get fired for, now they are policy.
  15. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Well, I am off to my hearing........I don't have any good expectations of how this will go..... our division manager is not exactly the most people friendly person......
  16. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    After my local hearing, I am still terminated......I have two to three weeks to wait to go to the panel. Company still maintains that I was dishonest by sheeting package as closed holiday and stands by customers assertion that I did not attempt del.
  17. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    That's tough, it does sound like you're getting screwed. I've always been instructed to sheet known closed as CLOH (dentist on friday, etc), and the fact that you've been doing it that way for 5 years would indicate past practice. I'm really surprised that they would take a 21 year driver to panel over this. Are you a low profile guy, or are they using this incident to "get" you because they don't like you? I hope things go your way at panel, it really does sound like BS.
  18. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    No, I am not a "low profile guy"..... I have had my share of head bumps with management over the years..... sort of new here but I am one of those type of guys that a lot of the posters apparently hate....Guy that hustles all day to get done early so I can be home with my family......I don't have anything against the 9.5ers out there.... everybody does what they need to do for their own reasons........I am usually off the clock at 4pm and I start at 8:50 am........The division HR manager who handles the companys' agenda during the panel stated since I was aware that the day in question was not a "holiday" that I was being dishonest...... they are sticking with this idea.....
  19. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    GeorgiaBrown, a little tip: GPS does not need to be activated in your diad to have a GPS coordinates. Keep pushing them to prove it using the GPS coordinates.
  20. GeorgiaBrown

    GeorgiaBrown New Member

    Thanks, I am having the business agent aggressively pursue this......after my local hearing today they have focused more on the whole CLOH thing.... insisting that since I was aware that 7/24/09 was not a recognized holiday that I was dishonest by sheeting it so....the division HR manager referenced discipline letters from the past 9 months to add fuel to the fire..... late air and failure to remove a clerk package from my car on the pm side.......