high value damage claim denied. Seeking advise

[hpc]

We sold a unit a couple of months ago for 24500 (international sale)
Our customer received the unit and notified us that it was damaged and sent pictures of the devise plus pictures of the boxes.
on the boxes you can see a nice hole where it appears to of been pierced from my guess a forklift tine. Damage to the unit correlates to the box damage as well.
We insured the unit for our cost of the device $16400 and thought at least we were covered on it. Now after fighting with UPS for 2 months now they have completely denied the claim as they say we shipped it in that condition (hole in box and all) Even after our driver and the local manager at the shop testified to the UPS insurance adjuster that the unit was not shipped that way and did not leave their depot in that condition. (I assumed that was going to cinch the case for me)
The adjuster said the only way they would pay the claim is if we had pictures of the box at time of shipment.
We are now faced with taking this to court and throwing more money at it or just eating it. neither option seems good.

 

[Dustyroads]

I have no advice concerning your disputed claim, however, for future reference, if I were shipping a device across the globe that was valued at more than my pickup truck, I would pack it in a plywood crate. Just 30 years of experience talking.

 

[hpc]

Plywood crate would of not stopped the forklift.(or What ever it was pierced two layers of 12 guage steel.) The server (for lack of better word) was double boxed with foam.

 

[Dustyroads]

It was packaged in a box made of two layers of steel? Hmmmm... I've worked for ups for 30 years, and never seen a forklift in our building, ever. We don't really handle things on pallets, therefore, there would be nothing to pick up with the forklift. I've handled fragile packages for years, and I'm just saying, I see lots of things go through in wooden boxes, to one particular manufacturing facility on my route, and I've never seen a wooden box that has been punctured, in my 30 years.

While I am sure that you are upset with both the damage and with the reluctance of the insurer to pay the claim, my advice was just for future reference, you might want to pack them in a wooden box. Take it or leave it.

 

[hpc]

The adjuster from Crawford is claiming that e took flattened cardboard out of the garbage and wrapped it around our unit and stuck two PCs of tape on the side and that was how we shipped it. Just ridiculous!
After the first denial I had our driver make a statement as he specifically remembers the package and brought it into the depot himself because of the high value so it would be tagged. (his words) He wrote that the package was in perfect condition as are all of our packages that he picks up.
I thought that would cinch the case but of course not.

 

[hpc]

It was packaged in a box made of two layers of steel? Hmmmm... I've worked for ups for 30 years, and never seen a forklift in our building, ever. We don't really handle things on pallets, therefore, there would be nothing to pick up with the forklift. I've handled fragile packages for years, and I'm just saying, I see lots of things go through in wooden boxes, to one particular manufacturing facility on my route, and I've never seen a wooden box that has been punctured, in my 30 years.

While I am sure that you are upset with both the damage and with the reluctance of the insurer to pay the claim, my advice was just for future reference, you might want to pack them in a wooden box. Take it or leave it.

No the packaging was cardboard the server is made of steel. Whatever it was that pierced it pierced through two layers of steel.

 

[Dustyroads]

My suggestion was simple, if I were shipping something across the globe that was fragile and worth tens of thousands of dollars, I would construct a box made of 3/8 inch plywood with foam and styrofoam peanuts inside screwed together at all sides. That's how I would pack it.

 

[hpc]

It was packaged in a box made of two layers of steel? Hmmmm... I've worked for ups for 30 years, and never seen a forklift in our building, ever. We don't really handle things on pallets, therefore, there would be nothing to pick up with the forklift. I've handled fragile packages for years, and I'm just saying, I see lots of things go through in wooden boxes, to one particular manufacturing facility on my route, and I've never seen a wooden box that has been punctured, in my 30 years.

While I am sure that you are upset with both the damage and with the reluctance of the insurer to pay the claim, my advice was just for future reference, you might want to pack them in a wooden box. Take it or leave it.

Don't get me wrong as I am looking future preventatives as we ship similar units internationally on a regular basis. I can take wood crating into consideration but that would be out of the norm for IT equipment ( in 20 years in it sales I only have seen that one time to my recall.

 

[Dustyroads]

I've never seen anything that was shipped in a wooden crate as I describe that has ever been damaged. I don't know such packaging is the "norm", but, neither are packages worth $20,000. If it were my stuff, I'd really pack the $20,000 stuff in very strong, protective boxes. But, that's just me, I always overpack stuff I'm shipping. I sold some stuff on ebay once, and got a complaint because they had difficulty getting the package open. It's hard to please everyone.

 

[cachsux]

Unless it was shipped freight,we have no forklifts in our system. Most puncture damage is caused by a fall onto the corner or edge of a belt system or something was dropped on it. 12 gauge steel? That`s pretty thick,two layers even more so. Darn near 3/16ths,that could stop a low power bullet. Don`t be afraid to be descriptive of your item on here. We could help you with ideas but any ultimate decision is out of our hands.

 

[Dustyroads]

As for advice about your claim, I think you should contact your customer service/business development representative at UPS. If you don't know who that person is, you could ask your driver, they will know the customer rep's name. If anyone can do anything about the claim, it will have to be someone in that department.

 

[hpc]

Dusty
You are probably correct but I am assuming (and only assuming)that the products you see in crates are likely industrial or automotive. I will look into possibility of doing so for the future but I am actually looking for advise on how to reach a real person at UPS.
Again I am not sure if it was fork lift This was air international express package so not freight. Whatever it was hit it hard and fast (about the size of a fork lift tine)
with a normal problem with UPS a phone call to our rep would have it straightened out. But we found out that during the last month our sales rep quit. So we have no good point of contact within the company.

 

[hpc]

As for advice about your claim, I think you should contact your customer service/business development representative at UPS. If you don't know who that person is, you could ask your driver, they will know the customer rep's name. If anyone can do anything about the claim, it will have to be someone in that department.

Again that is our problem right now is we have nobody to contact. There has not been anyone assigned to rep our account at this point.

 

[hpc]

From reading on the web this seems to be the standard response to claims of any value.

 

[Dustyroads]

Despite the fact that your rep has quit, I can assure you that someone has taken his job and responsibilities. Again, your driver should be able to tell you the rep's name, or if not, your driver should be able to give you the name of the person handling the account within 24 hours of your request. While people at all levels of ups quit the company, someone always takes over that person's job. We do have other people working in Customer Service/business development.

 

[hpc]

Our driver has been trying to help and he is the one who told us nobody has been assigned our account.
Do you know of any customer advocasey within UPS ? I know if I can actualy talk to a real person I could get this resolved. At the very least they could send the package back as it has been two months. I am almost afraid they are trying to lose it at this point. (return shipments are only insured for $100.00)

 

[Dustyroads]

Why don't you just ask your driver for his center manager's name and phone number. I bet he will be able to produce that for you, and in turn, I'm sure the center manager will be able to tell you who in customer service is handling your account.
Try that.

 

[hpc]

Dusty thanks and I will try that.

 

[hpc]

Next question. If and when it shows back up do I have the right to refuse the package? I have a feeling that by accepting the package back I am accepting the liability.

 

[hpc]

If you look at this tracking does it even look right?
1Z850RE8DA42707976
https://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/track?loc=en_US