Houston we have a problem!

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by overflowed, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. overflowed

    overflowed Well-Known Member

    So I've stumbled onto something quite accidentally. Maybe something, maybe :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:e". I was talking to a co worker about our situation and and she told me that he was talking to a retired union rep that lives on her rte and the guy says you guys should unionize. She says something like well how? the guy goes on to say won't ever happen with the ibt though, because fedex paid them off a huge sum of money 5-6 years ago. Is this why they won't even reply to emails for help with assistance? I mean this is there jobs, their livelihood. This is equivalent to us driving out to our rtes and just furukin parking. This is what they get paid for. I can't understand why they can't even reply hey dude we're aren't interested you're just too much trouble. Just a big Furukin nothing. Just thought maybe if some are really interested in doing this we should definitely be looking elsewhere than IBT. I'm livid right now. But not horribly surprised. This is the world we live in. Money makes the merry go round. It actually makes a little sense. They're treating simple basic questions like the Furukin plague. It makes no sense. Just thought my brothers and sisters should know this.
  2. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    A few of us have openly wondered of some of Fred's green has made it's way into Mr. Hoffa's bank account. This would explain a lot.
  3. zapmail

    zapmail New Member

    Ok say the rla is off the table..why on earth would we give our meager pensions to the ibt? They wouldn't you know what down our you know what if our lungs were on fire. Everyone wants to run to them IF we ever had the chance. Let's say the rla is off the table. Then what? Our only option is the ibt? Uh wrong. Anyone heard of the FDXWU? Me neither. Let's call it the FedEx Workers Union and their is NO reason we couldn't form it if rla was off the table. Rla prevents us from organizing. If we ever were able is ibt the only game in town? Only if we would be foolish enough to NOT start our own. Food for thought.
  4. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    I'm going to say the latter...

    OK... Let's just assume there is a tiny element of truth to this....

    1. Why did the IBT keep pushing through late 2010 (just 2.5 years ago), to get Express out from the RLA and under the NLRA? To put on a 'good show' after they had been bought off? Why did Fred and company pay MILLIONS in lobbying in 2009-10 to make sure it stayed under the RLA - after supposedly paying off the IBT or Hoffa Jr???

    2. If Fred and company shuffled cash to either the IBT or Hoffa Jr. personally, there would be a paper trail of that expenditure in the books oF FedEx (publicly traded company) - which would've shown up long ago. The IBT is audited annually, and if the IRS were to only conduct one audit of a personal return in 2013 (or in any year before), it would be the return of Hoffa Jr. Where's the cash? If the IBT got some money in 2009-10, others in the Obama administration would've had to been paid off to keep them from investigating. Did Holder (US Attorney General), get paid off? Are there aliens living on Mars???

    3. The IBT does have its own 'internal culture', but if some sort of 'payola' such as this ever supposedly occurred, there would be someone making a call to either the FBI, IRS or media outlet to get the story out.

    Occam's razor

    Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    To put it briefly:

    "The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations."

    So... what makes more sense.

    There was a grand conspiracy involving FedEx putting large sums of cash into either the IBT's or Hoffa Jr's hands....


    FedEx legally and 'above board' paid off members of Congress with targeted contributions to their re-election campaigns and managed to keep the RLA classification. Then once having accomplished that, the IBT realized that given the huge expense of trying to organize under RLA rules COMBINED with the sheepish nature of Express Couriers, that they'd be better off walking away?

    They (IBT) get paid union dues from their members to represent THEIR interest - and a lot of the time they don't do that too well. They don't get paid to represent YOUR interest (when was the last time you paid IBT union dues)?

    Two words: Politics and......

    If a spokesman from the IBT were to get on here and make ANY statement in regards to Express organizing - it would make national news. An organization won't make a statement like you are wanting, UNLESS they have something to gain from making that statement. It gets back to the old - you've got your problems, they've got theirs, making your problems theirs won't do them a damn bit of good.

    Whenever you try to anticipate the actions of another, you have to ask yourself: "What would they have to gain from taking action?". In the case of the IBT making ANY statement in regards to Express Couriers. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    You have the first part of your answer.

    Money... as the second part.

    UPS drivers receive 13% of their gross (up to 45 hours/week) in pension plan contributions from their employer invested at market rates.

    Express employees receive 5% of their gross (if they are younger than 50) in a pension plan from their employer which is invested at the whopping return of 4% currently. FedEx Corporation holds that cash, and is able to use it for their own purposes until an employee quits and cashes out - or they are due payments if they elect an annuity.

    I'm confused... which is the better deal again....

    Ok... you can't even get people to sign an IBT representation card (costs them nothing out of pocket), and you want to form an independent union?

    I'm going to say this with all due respect, Are you delusional??

    Forming an independent union costs money. NO ONE is going to provide 'seed money' to start up such a venture - no way, no how. When independent unions are formed, the potential members (that would mean Express Couriers) would pony up the cash to get the organization funded and rolling. So let's say this mythical union would need a total staff (administration, field organizers, consultants, attorneys - you name it) of say 200. Just 200.

    There would need to be enough cash at startup to cover expense for about 3 years until Express Couriers were organized and paying dues (to cover ongoing operating expenses then trimming staff once the union went from 'organizing mode' to 'ongoing operations' mode). How much cash would it take to provide for 3 years of operations without any revenue coming in (union dues)? If one uses a figure of $100,000 average per employee per year (salary, benefits, expenses, overhead, etc). It would take an absolute MINIMUM of:

    200 employees * $100,000 per year * 3 years = $60,000,000

    And yes, with all the expenses a potential union would incur, the average employee expense to that organization would be $100,000 per year. Within that figure would be all expenses, travel, hand bill literature, attorneys (they get paid a lot), the senior staff, building leases, media relations, you name it. People like this don't get paid $40,000 a year - not by a long shot.

    And let's just say that 10,000 Express Couriers would pony up the cash to get this organization going... (can't even get them to sign rep cards for free, thinking they will pony up cash is laughable).

    $60,000,000 divided by 10,000 Couriers = $6,000 per Courier.

    You're not going to get ANY Courier to pony up $600 to get an independent union going, forget about $6,000.

    Uh, no... The RLA makes it extremely difficult and expensive for a union to organize a covered company's employees, NOT 'prevents'. The Couriers of Express are more of an obstacle to their organizing than the RLA is. The RLA just makes it so that a union will not attempt to start a national organizing campaign, due to the cost and history of Express Couriers in regards to organizing. The RLA doesn't do a DAMN THING to prevent Express Couriers from signing rep cards, sending them in, starting a grassroots organization and continuing to get more and more cards sent in.

    The list of existing unions is present in another thread - call away. The thumb nail financials to getting an independent union started are illustrated above.

    Only a fool gets in over their head without thinking of all options before they commit to a course of action.

    I think I illustrated the foolishness of even thinking that the Couriers could start an 'independent union'.
  5. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Just for clarification, the FedEx Portable Pension pays 3%, 5%, 7%, or 9% of your gross. Which % you receive is based on points that are determined by your years of service plus your age. You need at least 75 points to receive the 9%. And this year is the last of a 5 year period where those that were 40 or older received an extra 4% in "transition points" to catch them up, such as it is. So for the last 5 years the highest category has been 13%, but will end with this summer's payment. This plan is heavily weighted on the back end to the point that someone starting today at 23 and deciding to leave at 37 wouldn't receive much. For it to be enough to just supplement Social Security that 23 year old would definitely need to work until 70.
  6. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe UPS would pony up the $60,000,000!:happy-very:
  7. zapmail

    zapmail New Member

    Remind me not to drink like a Ground driver before I post :sick:
  8. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    Have a better way to come up with $60,000,000?
  9. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    At least 2 six-packs of Bud before you are competent to post.
  10. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    An independent union wouldn't work, just ask our pilots, who had an "in-house" union before they decided (wisely) to go ALPA. Fred was able to get around it, so they went with an established union Smith couldn't screw around with.

    Who really knows what Fred has done behind-the-scenes to entice the IBT to not make a full-fledged effort to organize Express? The Teamsters aren't exactly known for being squeaky-clean. For example, Hoffa Sr. regularly raided the Teamsters Pension Fund to loan money to the mob so they could build Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe, and other gambling venues. There have fairly regularly been accusations of improprieties having to do with Teamster leaders.

    Is Hoffa Jr. dirty? I don't really know either way, but Fred Smith does a lot of things that aren't above board. To think that all of his "activities" are accounted-for isn't very realistic. There are a lot of ways to buy politicians, regulators, and union leaders that don't show-up on the books.
  11. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    unlike the IBT it would be in UPS' best interest to do so and a pittance of a sum.
  12. SmithBarney

    SmithBarney Well-Known Member

    Time to search google for unions... and start dropping them some emails, I emailed one last week. Point them to this board, and anywhere else!
  13. Broke

    Broke Member

    There are a lot of mysteries about what happened with the campaign almost 3 years ago. One that baffles me the most is that Hoffa appears on many morning shows talking about all kinds of issues but not 1 time did he ever bring the express carrier protection act that would have removed us from the RLA. He appeared on the labor friendly Ed show and never mentioned it. A mechanic and I appeared on Ed's call in show and brought the subject up and that was the first he'd ever heard of it. Strange stuff for sure. There was plenty of support and we had some momentum and the IBT just disappeared. I personally think it can be done under the RLA or the NLRA.
  14. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member


    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    This is the attitude we have to overcome if we're going to organize.
  16. Broke

    Broke Member

    You just need to ignore that. He's not with us and never will be. Concentrate on some of your intelligent co-workers. Don't waste your time on the vantexans

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    Oh I know I don't waste my time with people like that because I know they'll eventually jump on the bandwagon cause hat's the type of people they are.
  18. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Let's see. The new RLA rules require 50% of all employees in a class to sign cards before a vote can be forced. Most employees don't have a clue about organizing and they never see an outside agency(i.e. the Teamsters) outside their stations passing out cards and literature. The Teamsters won't even return calls or answer emails. And as R1a has pointed out any outside chance that a union can get in goes away when DRA is fully implemented. Which means time is short which, of course, is denied by some here. If you can get a union in then by all means do so. But all I see is chest thumping and name calling. WHY WOULD ANYONE TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY? Time is short and time spent here crowing instead of out there organizing is wasted time. Buy a clue for crying out loud!
  19. Broke

    Broke Member

    Texan needs to take a Texas size dose of his medication. Which personality will he be tomorrow? Pro FedEx? Anti Fedex? Pension expert? Legal advisor?
  20. Cactus

    Cactus Just telling it like it is

    Hoffa was lying pure and simple. First time he'd ever heard of it? Gimme a break.
    Next time he's on a call-in show, ask him how much Fred paid him off.