How Do I Appeal A State Panel Grievance Hearing

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by browned out, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. browned out

    browned out Active Member

    I just had my state panel hearing where my grievance was that I had received an unjust warning notice (3 day suspension) for not following proper routings as directed. UPS stated that during an observation I did not use horn at stops, walked on unlevel curb, and did not ring a door bell and knock at a stop. I used all these methods and more as I do whether mgmt is with me, observing me or I am by myself. Management had many pictures but none showed me in violation of any of the these methods. I asked them for video because I know my methods were correct and would like to be able to prove it. they had no video. How can I protect myself if management lies?

    They were observing me from 100 yards back or more. I saw them for the duration of the observation. They told me I did not knock or ring the bell at a stop. I did knock and ring the bell after placing the mat over the package and told UPS so. Managements picture shows the mat placed over the package next to the door. I submitted pictures of the stop. These pictures were taken from 4 houses back which is the distance where they were observing from. I also submitted pictures that were taken from 1 house away. At no time could the door be seen. This is a deep porch and mgmt flat out lied on what they say occured. It was physically impossible for them to see the door or anywhere near the door.

    Anyhow mgmt was unable to prove any of these methods violations occured and I still received a one day suspension which is still a major offense.

    I need to know how to appeal if possible.
  2. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    I don't know how you appeal.

    Are you saying you were found guilty, but your sentence was reduced from a three-day suspension to a one-day suspension? Like they split the difference as a compromise?

    If you weren't given an appeal form, or advised of your right to appeal, then I'd guess there is no appeal.

    Your case is a factual dispute between two parties. A "he said, she said." Basically the "judges" (and I use the term loosely,) believed Management and not you. Normally, in law, you can't appeal determinations of fact, only determinations of interpretation, or errors in procedure.

    Were any witnesses under oath? Even in a real courtroom trial, guilty witnesses and their allies lie all the time and almost never get prosecuted for perjury. If Management wasn't under oath, you can imagine how easy it is to lie. (Guilty union members lie too, of course.)

    Maybe you can file a case in a real Court if you can prove you were very poorly represented, but that's difficult to prove.

    In the Rules of Procedure did it say the proceedings will not follow strict courtroom legalitity? This is why miscariges of justice happen so frequently. It's a bunch of good ol' boys makin' deals and decisions. Not professional jurists.

    Do you know how the "judges" voted? What union officers voted against you??? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

    Tell us some details if you're willing so readers will understand how these "trials" operate.
  3. cino321

    cino321 Active Member

    UPS took this to panel? really?
  4. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    UPS would take their grandmother to a panel or court if they felt they could show her who is boss.
  5. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    I suggested trying the NLRB. They are the last resort. Why it was erased after my posting it the first time, I have no idea.
  6. browned out

    browned out Active Member

    1 day suspension even though management had no proof and even lied about me not ringing the bell and knocking. I don't know. I guess the panel was horse trading as they reversed a dismisal to another driver. This driver has major problems such as accidents, not following procedures, and a record a mile long. I hope that driver turns it around but my feeling is that driver will be terminated soon anyhow. I don't understand how mine got to the state level either.

    What really dissapoints me is that even with proof that it was physically impossible for management to see the front door, it still was not rescinded. It was blattant dishonesty by management but as we know there are 2 sets of rules for integrity.

    I have found out there is no chance for appeal. The NLRB is an option. I don't think I will go that route. I was told most of the time the NLRB will just go back and look at the state panel decision and believe the state panel are the experts.
  7. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    Before the committee recessed to executive session, were you asked by the union chair if you had an opportunity to present any and all evidence in this case? And then were you asked if your local union and your business representative had represented you properly? If these questions were asked, and I'm pretty sure they were, that was your chance to plead any definciencies in the proceedings. When you answered in the affirmative, you relieved the union from any NLRB charges.
    I'm surprized you were given a suspension for these charges. Were there other prior issues you left out? Sounds to me like they were after you for priors and they stuck you with a bogus charge.
  8. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Another case of not hearing the whole story. Nobody gets suspended for 3 days for not ringing a doorbell.
  9. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    I was thinking this myself... this is very nitpicky stuff.... and is not something that should hold up at a panel unless there is more to the story
  10. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    You need to call the international and tell them that you feel that you were given a suspension as a result of production harassment. Here is the number 202 624 6800 call them and explain your situation. They will call your ba and ask him what transpired at panel. If he is worth his weight he will be greatful you made the call because he could use the support from you and he might not be in the position politically to make this call. Drop the dime your local won't be mad because they did what they could do and they probably don't have the clout at panel and this isn't the members fault.
  11. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    It sounded to me like the Grievant, or his Local Union, took the case to the Panel. (Although UPS had to agree, in a way, by refusing to recind the 3-day suspension.)

    If Management gave him a 3-day suspension initially, then that's the end of it as far a Management is concerned. But the Grievant disagreed and filed a grievance protesting the 3-day suspension. Management didn't back down, so the Grievant and his Local put the case on the Panel Docket. Management didn't throw in the towel, so the case eventually went foreward. The grievant is given a partial victory by the Panel's decision: The 3-day suspension is reduced to a 1-day suspension.

    Logically, that's how I assume it went. Unless the Original Poster says otherwise.
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    Lets see here, the panel (in which the BA's sit on) agreed that the poster did something wrong, but not enough for a 3 day but a 1 day suspension and then go back to work. Now you are telling the poster to call the internatinional because it was a political thing and/or the BA's didn't have enough clout to get the poster's case dismissed.....:didimiss:
  13. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    The OP is not telling the whole story. Take the 1 day suspension, chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.
  14. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Agree with above.
  15. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    In his mind.... maybe.... he is....

  16. rocket man

    rocket man Well-Known Member

    enjoy the 3 days and move on
  17. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    I really hope thats not the whole story. There has to be some level of proof required at these panels.... Right?
  18. Bad Gas!

    Bad Gas! Active Member

    Take the 1 day and watch your assets...They will move to someone else..Lay low under the radar...
  19. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Proof is probably required, but the hard part is how do you enforce that rule on the decisionmakers. If a panel member votes "guilty" or "not guilty," how can anyone else know they voted based on provable evidence, or just backroom dealmaking and grievance-trading?

    Ultimately, there has to be finality. This means decisionmakers' decisions are normally respected and can't be endlessly appealed. This is why it is so important that the process be transparent, and the right people put in the positions to make the decisions.

    In this case they probably heard conflicting testimony and just "split the difference" so both sides could claim partial victory and move on.

    It's unsettling to watch sausage, legislation, or panel decisions being made.
  20. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    That definitely is unsettling, if it was a real trial in court, their would be a minimum level of evidence required before handing out any kind of punishment. Splitting the difference makes having union representation worthless....

    if ups wanted to fire you, they could just make up some ridiculous story like accussing you of stealing packages and hitting a customer. Then... When they obviously cant prove their accusations, the panel would just "split the difference" and only find you guilty of stealing, and not hitting the customer. (a unrealistic example, but im sure you get the point), either way you'd be fired!