if 22.4 was eliminated and just more RPCD's were hired would you vote yes

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by browl movement, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Im not trying to convince anyone to vote yes, i could less give a damn what you do. Im telling you that im voting yes, and the reasons im voting yes, and want to discuss the different angles of the contract, this is like a part 2 to a post i made yesterday, but what i got from it made me think, If this 2 tier wage scale is such a problem, then how would you feel if every 22.4 was hired as RPCD driver, theyd have protections etc, there would be not enough work for the majority of them due to the lack of seniority so itd be more of a dog and pony show to say they added more FT work, hell their qualification period would take as long the progression. If they were actually implemented into the lineup itd be even more detrimental to those who desire OT, if they end up shuffling the lions share of the work for the weekends, then theres even less work on the weekdays and everyone loses, with this new 22.4 idea, theres some language limiting the amount of them being able to be implemented to 25 percent, which is high, not that its perfect, but thats why its a negotiation, to not get into debates about different regions lets use the southern region supplemental agreement as a base language and if yours is different then you can mention that. Im focusing on the 22.4 aspect of the contract because thats what seems to make people balk at it the most.
     
  2. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    You somehow think we'd be worse off if they do away with 22.4?



    I want some of what you're smoking.
     
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  3. MyTripisCut

    MyTripisCut Dumpster, INABAG

    He’s smoking Hoffa’s little schween.
     
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  4. Wrong

    Wrong :))

    Can you paragraph that out?
     
  5. its outlining some of the hypocrisy in the counterarguments ive seen so far, if you make more RPCD's coming for your work instead of a 22.4, its no longer the moral high ground to say that they get paid less for the same work, its clear they just want all the work to a select few much like it is now so they rack up OT
     
  6. 9.5 Outlaw

    9.5 Outlaw New Member

    Not sure why you’re pro two tier driver. I believe you said in the other thread you’re a former preloader. Would it be fair to have a two tier preloader? One that tops out at 18 and the other tops out at say 14?

    That’s why we hate the 22.4 addition to the contract. One set of drivers top out at 41; the other 36. Same work. What do you not get about this?
     
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  7. Wrong

    Wrong :))

    That’s not a good observation at all. Hybrid drivers are selling out future workers, you act like UPS will be hiring RPCDs or promoting hybrids at all. The 25% number you are seeing has no teeth to it and gives the company a lot more flexibility than 25% it can change at their discretion. There’s no repercussions for not honoring that and ways around it in the language from what I’ve seen.
     
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  8. Wrong

    Wrong :))

    Not only that but it is watering down our guaranteed 8 language, wonder why they’d be doing that if they don’t plan on using these cheaper hybrid drivers over us?
     
  9. Wrong

    Wrong :))

    It’s a bad contract for people like you that will sell out all that the Union has fought for these years. Keep your “raise” I’d rather just work under the old contract.

    As for the southern region supplement from what I’ve heard they are doing a good job of polishing the turd fighting off the watered down 8 hour langauge, but it’s still a turd.
     
  10. 40 and out

    40 and out Active Member

    Any lower full time starting pay will eventually lead to the same mess that part time wages are now. Already happening with the ever lengthening progression. No 22.4!!! No more concessions!
     
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  11. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    22.4 aren't about alleviating OT. They are about creating a second class of driver that gets paid less.



    Most guys at my center would gladly take 8 hour days every day if possible. And we could be given them if they'd just work everyone. But they won't put the routes in.
     
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  12. thats a bit of a strawman because what you said is making a lot of assumptions that would take a while to get into, there isnt a progression for preload, so its apples and oranges, everyone gets around the same except for those who have been with the company much longer which, if there were excellent pre loaders making 18 an hour hogging all the work and people wanted to come in the door to an entry level job to make less, but still have a foot in the door to make 18, then that outlandish scenario could compare to whats going on with the drivers


    much like a TCD can become a FT driver, an 22.4 can also, i dont see where it says that theyre stuck there forever, Theres a lot of TCD's that that make more than people that've been here a while, so the progression won't go in vain when they go full time
     
  13. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    That has already happened 36 years ago. One preloader making $35.65/hr working next to another preloader making $10/hr. Where have you been?
     
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  14. id be damned if i let some seasonal today drive and i got sent home, much is the same sentiment if a 22.4 driver got work and an RPCD didn't, the tenative agreement mentions that no RPCD will be displaced in favor of a 22.4 so that 25 percent number is seems more of a way to combat fluctuations in volume like on call seasonals, yet work for them on the weekends
     
  15. Box Ox

    Box Ox Well-Known Member

    TCDs provide route coverage when and where needed during half of the year. 22.4s would be given blown out routes year round in order to take work from RPCDs. Most of them probably won't be around long enough to even obtain an RPCD slot.

    That's the only reason they exist. It's why there's both no overtime protections for them and an "if work is available" stipulation in the RPCD hourly guarantee.

    They are not the same thing. And comparing them is disingenuous at best.
     
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  16. Box Ox

    Box Ox Well-Known Member

    Here's the Company trick with that: You work the 22.4 Wednesday through Sunday.

    You give the 22.4s Monday and Tuesday off. You also lay off as many RPCDs as you can on Monday and Tuesday due to the heavy weekend delivery since no 22.4s are working.
     
  17. 9.5 Outlaw

    9.5 Outlaw New Member

    Didn’t say it hadn’t happened in the past. I was trying to draw out an example to show the OP what it’s like to have a two-tier setup with the same work. I used preloader as an example because he said in another thread that he used to be one.

    Nonetheless, 22.4 is garbage. Anyone that says otherwise is being lied to or just flat out doesn’t care. Drivers should start out and top out the same. It’s the same work, driving the same trucks, using the same uniform.
     
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  18. "In the event the Company needs additional staffing to cover Saturday or Sunday ground deliveries, such work shall first be offered to RPCDs as set forth above, then to Article 22.4 combination drivers on their scheduled off day" i dont see how a 22.4 would work t-sun if work is doled out to RPCD's first, and in a perfect world there would be a lot of RPCD's volunteering to work the weekends and 22.4's would be more of an afterthought, but since more than likely 22.4's will dominate the weekend, i can see mondays still being cut, but thats already going on now, i dont think a 22.4 would see a day on m-f because of that part in the tenative agreement, since they are relagated to scraps on the weekdays, i agree with the monday and tuesday parts would be an issue
     
  19. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    I'd be damned if a seasonal got the day off and I had to work. The same sentiment if a 22.4 driver got the day off and I had to work.
     
  20. the bulk of the 22.4's is supposedly coming from pters, so i dont think the turnover rate will be that high, theres so many seasonal people that beg to just be on preload so that they can eventually drive, and about once a week someone will ask me if theyre hiring drivers, most people would love to not be a cashier or some other menial job and make decent money on the weekends, and are you referencing the southern supplement