Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
In the end, who wins??? And at what cost?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="brownIEman" data-source="post: 5648930" data-attributes="member: 14596"><p>That's the IBT propaganda view. </p><p>Trying to get out of the multi employer pension obligation was decried as a money grab as you put it. </p><p>The company saw it as trying to get out of an obligation created by dozens of firms that the IBT helped go out of business. The deregulation caused those makets to be much more competitive, and IBT negotiated work rules all but insured the union trucking houses could not turn on a dime and pickup up loads at a moments notice and they were not able to compete with small non union houses or owner operators. </p><p>UPS saw that ever growing financial obligation as a bankruptcy waiting to happen, and they might not have been wrong. </p><p></p><p>The thrift plan was eliminated in '95 due to changing IRS rules that made the way that plan operated no line beneficial, and maybe borderline illegal. It had no connection to the decision to go public. Discussions of going public I have no doubt had occurred for decades. But Jim Kelley and his supporters in leadership I have no doubt were against it up until the strike. After the strike Kelley was weakened in his position due to what was seen as a failure, and quickly replaced as CEO. I have no doubt the final decision to go public was taken after August '97.</p><p></p><p>As for leaving Central, I think the exit fee was closer to 2B in '97, but yes 1.5 to 2 in that range. It was 6 or 7B in'07 when Hoffa traded it for organizing UPS freight (Cochrane was probably spinning in his grave). The Central States fund managers proceeded to lose pretty much the entire chunk (which UPS borrowed and is still paying off) in the financial crash of 08-09.</p><p></p><p>You also left out that in '97 UPS offered to put in the contract that any UPSers moved to the UPS-IBT plan they proposed creating could not recieve a lesser benefit than what members under the Central states wound up getting. They were just trying to avoid the proverbial sword of Damacles. The only ones getting totally screwed under that deal would have been the non-UPSers in Central states. They got screwed regardless. </p><p>In the end, even when UPS left the Central states fund, it agreed to make up shortfalls to UPSers left in the fund. Which was a stupid thing to agree to, as when the IBT negotiated grants to try to bail the fund out, the tried to give those funds to non UPSer retirees first to basically screw the company.</p><p></p><p>Funny thing about wolves in industries. They can be hard to identify and years or decades away. They are out there though. Just ask the US Steel industry. They cried wolf for decades. It eventually showed. Same with the US Automakers. They now have largely 2 tier pay structures. </p><p>But the wolf for UPS is already on its way, has been since about 97. Maybe longer. And the company holding part timers to low relative wages won't hold off the wolf for long, so for what is worth, I hope the IBT can get much better compensation for part timers so that becomes a decent job for college students and younger folks starting out as it once was.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="brownIEman, post: 5648930, member: 14596"] That's the IBT propaganda view. Trying to get out of the multi employer pension obligation was decried as a money grab as you put it. The company saw it as trying to get out of an obligation created by dozens of firms that the IBT helped go out of business. The deregulation caused those makets to be much more competitive, and IBT negotiated work rules all but insured the union trucking houses could not turn on a dime and pickup up loads at a moments notice and they were not able to compete with small non union houses or owner operators. UPS saw that ever growing financial obligation as a bankruptcy waiting to happen, and they might not have been wrong. The thrift plan was eliminated in '95 due to changing IRS rules that made the way that plan operated no line beneficial, and maybe borderline illegal. It had no connection to the decision to go public. Discussions of going public I have no doubt had occurred for decades. But Jim Kelley and his supporters in leadership I have no doubt were against it up until the strike. After the strike Kelley was weakened in his position due to what was seen as a failure, and quickly replaced as CEO. I have no doubt the final decision to go public was taken after August '97. As for leaving Central, I think the exit fee was closer to 2B in '97, but yes 1.5 to 2 in that range. It was 6 or 7B in'07 when Hoffa traded it for organizing UPS freight (Cochrane was probably spinning in his grave). The Central States fund managers proceeded to lose pretty much the entire chunk (which UPS borrowed and is still paying off) in the financial crash of 08-09. You also left out that in '97 UPS offered to put in the contract that any UPSers moved to the UPS-IBT plan they proposed creating could not recieve a lesser benefit than what members under the Central states wound up getting. They were just trying to avoid the proverbial sword of Damacles. The only ones getting totally screwed under that deal would have been the non-UPSers in Central states. They got screwed regardless. In the end, even when UPS left the Central states fund, it agreed to make up shortfalls to UPSers left in the fund. Which was a stupid thing to agree to, as when the IBT negotiated grants to try to bail the fund out, the tried to give those funds to non UPSer retirees first to basically screw the company. Funny thing about wolves in industries. They can be hard to identify and years or decades away. They are out there though. Just ask the US Steel industry. They cried wolf for decades. It eventually showed. Same with the US Automakers. They now have largely 2 tier pay structures. But the wolf for UPS is already on its way, has been since about 97. Maybe longer. And the company holding part timers to low relative wages won't hold off the wolf for long, so for what is worth, I hope the IBT can get much better compensation for part timers so that becomes a decent job for college students and younger folks starting out as it once was. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
In the end, who wins??? And at what cost?
Top