Indiana Gov. Sez "Get Over Reagan Already!"

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  2. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I'm curious where he is getting that we are comparing McCain to Reagan. There is no comparison, Reagan was a great man with great ideals that are still true to this day. McCain is nowhere near Reagan in terms of political ideals or communication skills. If I had a chance to vote in the republican primary it would not have been for McCain, but I am stuck with him. The best chance McCain has at winning a general election is to show the American people just how bad the ideas are that are coming from the other side. His plans aren't much better, but atleast they don't come straight from the Communist Manifesto.
  3. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Mythmaking and exploitation of themes had its roots in the transformation of Actor Ronald Reagon:bow: into a John Wayne- archetype cowboy who alone had the courage to stand tall against the Soviet Empire.:sword:

    Republican Party of Karl Rove and Lee Atwater's of the world will use these same personality based themes in the 2008 elections, because its all they know and more important, nothing has stopped them yet. Their platforms of more Middle East militarism and domestic policies designed to further widen America's rich-poor gap is as every poll shows is deeply unpopular. So as a McCain strategist, why not go on personality smears and mythical American folklore hero comparisons when knowing just how disadvantaged republicans are when it comes to actual issues.
  4. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Thats a rather myopic view on why the democrats can never seem to get into high profile offices such as the white house. When it comes to the actual issues you of all people should know what its like to be smacked around by real facts, and not pure emotion based ideals. The republican economic policies are based on ideas that allow everyone to become wealthier, and not bringing down the most productive members of society in order to raise up the least productive members. Republicans also do not risk our national security based on investment in appeasement and accomodation style foreign policies that make our world a more dangerous place. The american people understand and appreciate this, and this is why neither Clinton nor Obama will claim the title of President next January.
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's so much that but rather that some folks want all candidates or in this case McCain to be Reagan-like especially in policy. Amongst party leaders, this governor being one to some degree, are becoming more and more frustrated at the fact that conservatives at least appearing in some principle still long for limited gov't, cut in federal spending and obviously less tax dollars going to Washington and more of that staying at home.

    That is not what they are about but at the same time it's their fault as they have carried on this illusion of holding conservative, limited gov't principles. Now they must deal with a body politic who hold those principles while they themselves see them not as principles but rather a gimmick in the same manner as a slick used car salesman would dump one of us into a lemon if we ventured into his lair known as the car lot.

    Something that those of us who believe in limited gov't and let me say for the record that IMO we both believe in limited gov't although there are some specifics we probably part company and that's cool. That said, consider this point for a moment. We both advocate limited gov't in some manner and let's say that the powers that be (whoever "they" be) told us that they would give us a 40 year window and out of that 40 years we were able to hold the Key to the Kingdom for 28 of those years. Would it be fair to say that in those 28 years we could in fact find ways of lasting measure to have reduced gov't and even cut gov't spending and balance budgets? Could we even be able to reduce debt? It would seem on it's face that if you and I were given this chance, I feel pretty confident the 2 of us could vastly cut gov't. I feel confident I could cut to the point I could make D grab a gun and take a shot at me!

    But that said, over the last 40 years, republicans have owned the White House 28 of those 40 years with 20 of them being Reagan and direct Reagan legacy in the Bush Family. Has gov't during that period shrank? Has gov't limited itself? Has the much assailed Dept. of Education and Dept. of Energy which Reagan himself pointed at for direct elimination at least become a hollow shell of itself? Truth is, those federal level dynasties are more powerful now under republican watch than they were when first created?

    Carter created the DOE in 77' to help set energy policy as the light bulb went of in the early 70's about the energy warning signs as it relates to the Middle East. Looking at things today, what has it gotten us? The Department has grown manyfold but how has our energy situation improved over what it was in the 70's? Would you continue to pay a doctor for his services when you the patient never got better and in fact got worse?

    Another Carter creation, the Dept. of Education and is there anyone here who would dare say that since this federal agency was created that our education in America has gotten better? Compared to today, at the time the Dept. was created, a high school diploma was worth something. It was almost on par with about 2 years of college today. Another reason a High School graduate at UPS could become a District manager or higher. Now what is the story?

    But in 28 years out of 40, the republicans have owned the WH and in many of those years held sway in the Congress but did they as least make these failures a hollow shell? Nope, in the case of education we got an influx of power with "No Child Left Behind" and need I say a thing about the dept. of Energy and our current situation?

    Our good governor is just frustrated that we have some illusion that they are about cutting spending, limiting gov't and returning control of our futures and the needs of our families back to the local levels where they belong. The good governor is showing us the truth in who and what they are and instead of judging them we look and judge ourselves.

    We need to stop letting them play us for fools and start fighting back but my guess we've bought the feargame of the so-called Obama and/or Clinton threat and will fall in line come November and go over the cliff with the rest of the lemmings!
  6. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    If thats what you call a smack down rebuttle, you hit like a girl (no offense ladies). Again you luv to perpetuate the Republican mythology and try to pass it along as facts. You seem to dismiss the Clinton era in the Whitehouse was not so bad, in fact today Wall Street and Corp America employees have contributed more to Clinton and or Obama than McCain. And your still fear mongering about Nat'l security issues without acknowledging we are no safer after 8 years of Republicans, in fact we are less safer based on a failed foriegn policy innitiatives which less than 30% of Americans would agree with your logic.
  7. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I've had to smack you around with facts more than once, and this certainly won't be the last. You point to the Clinton era as being not so bad, but you fail to understand Clinton had an opportunity to stop all of this before he left office. He was given Osama Bin Laden on a silver platter and chose not to take him out. Its a shame that all Clinton had to do was to give our military to OK to fire and Osama would have died, 09/11/01 may have never happened, and we would probably not be in Afganistan or Iraq right now. As usual with a democratic president, they chose to make things work and leave the dirty work to the next Republican administration to take care of.

    While Obama and Clinton are getting more money during this election cycle, they are blowing it fighting each other. Not only are they arming the republicans one of them will eventually have to face, but they are draining their own coffers in order to tear each other down and dividing the party in the process. I don't believe we have seen the finale to this primary fight, but my prediction is that it will be a grand one! :happy2:
  8. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    The problem is Brett you can't smack a democrat with a spine, who will simply not accept the tradiotional dress down from Conservative influenced pundits.
    This is why I dispice neocons. Clinton is mad because they continuously lie about him. He has a right to be angry. It has nothing to do with a legacy.
    After one missle strike Clinton stopped because neocons were shreiking “wag the dog.” It was your party that was shreiking Clinton should stop.
  9. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid the bone mass you are mistaking for a spine is actually all located in the skull.

    If what you say is true about Clinton then you have shown why he will always be considered a less than average President. A real leader does what is right despite his critics. Great Presidents from years past have learned to make these choices, and Clinton is obviously not one of them.

    If what you consider a traditional conservative dressdown to be a review of historically accurate events then I can see why you buy so easily into the rhetoric spewed from the left and the DNC. Why bother to read into perfectly good facts when your emotionally based opinion carries the same weight in your own mind?
  10. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

  11. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Brett! Brett! Brett!

    Hey man, wake up. Your turn!


  12. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Wkmac.....The Conrad Dobler of Brown cafe...LOL

    Miller Lite, 1987-11-26, Conrad Dobler causing trouble
  13. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    I remember that commerical from back in the day!

    You gotta admit D, between this thread and the Preacher thread, you guys have been fun to watch. I have to admit I've enjoyed staying out of the fray and watching the action from the sidelines. Had more fun talking music which truly is more a passion for me anyway with DS and friends.

    But in fairness, all of you including you and Brett have made good points at various moments in the discussions so between laughs there has been some thought provoking moments too. I do find it funny that some people need preachers or some other indirect element (the hate goes both ways and across isles IMO so I'm pointing the finger at all of US) to justify not supporting someone when if you look specifically at the record and issues, there's tons of reasons IMO not to like any of them! You know me, Hate EM' all and let God sort EM out!
    :happy-very: The links I posted from Counterpoint which even though I would disagree with at times on some issues at that site is an excellent website and is by most to be considered "liberal" although in truth IMO those terms (liberal and conservative) are so muddied these days as to be about meaningless. Where's the media in some of these issues raised in the Counterpoint pieces? They're doing the same thing you guys are, debating Preachers so to speak! So much for the 4th estate!

    As for good ole' Conrad, if I were he, my ultimate merry prankster would be a trip to Corp. get one of you guys promoted and then moved to supervise over the location of another. Now that would be


    I know, I'm one aweful, rotten, full of :censored2:, BS'n MFer but unlike the rest of you I'm not chicken :censored2: to admit it!

    :wink2: c ya!
  14. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    wkmac- Be patient man! I had a full schedule yesterday. :anxious:

    In all the posts where youtube videos are present there seems to be a duplicate of the same video in the same post. Is anyone else getting this?

    Now, onto my response....

    Come on now, you expect me to believe a man who lied under oath. Who doesn't know the meaning of the word "is", and to this day can't keep his story straight from one day to the next? He stretched the truth in that interview just like he does everything else.

    Bill Clinton On Letting Osama Get Away

    Clinton refused to kill bin Laden

    Not in the least. Do you honestly believe our forefathers had 100% support in the revolutionary war? Do you believe Abe Lincoln had no critics when it came to engaging the south in the civil war? How about Woodrow Wilson on WW1, or Harry Truman in making the decision to drop the atom bomb on Japan at the end of WW2? None of these men made the decisions they did without severe critics, and had anyone of them had Bill Clinton's demeanor we would be living in a much different world today.

    I will admit Clinton did a couple of good things like welfare reform, and by not engaging our foreign enemies when he should have he was able to balance the budget for a short time. Although raising taxes when he said he would cut them, "don't ask, don't tell" policy for homosexuals in the military, and selling missile technology to the Chinese does not make the Clinton years successful at all. He was just lucky a new facet of our economy was emerging in the form of the Internet which kept the economy steaming along despite his attempts to bring it down.

    Conservatives can win elections based on ideals brought to the mainstream by Reagan, leftists have to win based on rewriting history, distorting facts, and needlessly stirring up people's emotions.
  15. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    I got doubles too.
  16. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Micheal Scheuer shows he is no apologist but simply trying to distance himself from the most outrageous activities that occurred under his watch. To think this man was motivated by a clear-eyed understanding of what lines our nation should not cross. Scheuer loves to blame everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, (except for himself, of course), for every mistep in the war on terror. But if you ask me it is he and his bureaucratic incompetence that has bin Laden walking the Earth today.

  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    Coming from a lady I'm not exactly sure just how I should take that!

    Hey Brett,

    Just funnin' around man. Have a good one!

    Mac..... Uh Conrad!

    I guess if AV is Boot, then I'm Conrad.

  18. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

  19. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Hey More or is it, HEY BAY BEE,



    Enjoy the morning coffee there YOU HOT DOLL YOU!
  20. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I understand, this is how you admit defeat. You have long since run out of usable rhetoric from the DNC so you make statements based on your opinion, and not based on fact. Its ok, I fully understand. Better luck next time. :)