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<blockquote data-quote="zubenelgenubi" data-source="post: 4629138" data-attributes="member: 63706">Where did I go immature? Functioning Socialism is a fantasy. The issue is that there are real problems with corporatism, and capitalism, and so it is hard to argue that their aren&#039;t. But that fact does not lend any credence to the viability of a Democratic economic system. People should demonstrate competence before being given the authority to make decisions. Corporations do fail at that, a lot. But your idea of a democratic, worker -controlled company is built entirely on incompetent people having equal say. If it ever works, it would have extremely limited success.I am indifferent to coops or top down. We&#039;ve been over this before, coops might solve some problems that corporations have. But if they were more effective as a business model, they would be the rule, not the exception. You have to ask yourself why coops aren&#039;t more common. I know your answer would be that evil capitalism keeps them down. But they don&#039;t do so well because the janitor should not have equal say over equipment acquisitions, if said janitor has no understanding of production or finance. And don&#039;t talk to me about cognitive dissonance. I&#039;ve written papers on the subject. I&#039;m not the one who makes up new definitions for words to support my views. I can entertain conflicting ideas because I do not integrate them, thus avoiding dissonance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="zubenelgenubi, post: 4629138, member: 63706"] Where did I go immature? Functioning Socialism [I]is[/I] a fantasy. The issue is that there [I]are[/I] real problems with corporatism, and capitalism, and so it is hard to argue that their aren't. But that fact does not lend any credence to the viability of a Democratic economic system. People should demonstrate competence before being given the authority to make decisions. Corporations do fail at that, a lot. But your idea of a democratic, worker -controlled company is built entirely on incompetent people having equal say. If it ever works, it would have extremely limited success. I am indifferent to coops or top down. We've been over this before, coops might solve some problems that corporations have. But if they were more effective as a business model, they would be the rule, not the exception. You have to ask yourself why coops aren't more common. I know your answer would be that evil capitalism keeps them down. But they don't do so well because the janitor should not have equal say over equipment acquisitions, if said janitor has no understanding of production or finance. And don't talk to me about cognitive dissonance. I've written papers on the subject. I'm not the one who makes up new definitions for words to support my views. I can entertain conflicting ideas because I do not integrate them, thus avoiding dissonance. [/QUOTE]

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