Injury question, what to expect?

[AnonyMusser]

In a hypothetical scenario a loader suffers a bone chip/small fracture + crushed toenail while loading in a trailor with an LOA on a Monday. The cause was the LOA continuing to run with packages on it and a 45lb box drops on the loaders toe. He went to the safety office and was looked at by his full time supervisor, the safety supervisors and other hub-wing supervisors (entertaining?) he did not file an accident report but the damage was observed and was offered to have an appointment with the company preferred physician. He politely declines and decides to wait a day or two so and see how it is.

On Thursday he breaks and decides to see an urgent care physician and fills out workers comp forms as the injury was sustained on the property, recieves an x ray and a physical inspection, followed by a copy of the x ray on cd, an open toed orthopedic shoe and a pain pill prescription he decides not to fill and is given a note saying he can return to work on monday, if the condition permits. He returns to work and his note is denied and is sent to the company preferred physician. He sees the physician and is told he can return to work immediately. I wont get into the doublespeak or intimidation from the hypothetical supervisors. Before the mandatory "Get an attorney" he has already spoken with one who believes he has a case for a modest settlement for the injury if not at the least compensation for the base hours missed due to injury. Where do you other UPSer's think he should go from there?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Hindsight is 20/20 but he should have filled out the accident report while in the safety office and then he should have gone to the medical facility of his choice to have the injury examined. A supervisor would have probably been asked to go with him; if so, the injured employee does not have to let the supervisor in to the exam room nor does he have to give him access to his medical records. The only thing the sup would need are any notes related to work release and/or return to work status. The problem began when he waited until Thursday to seek medical attention and is basically given the rest of the week off to heal with a return to work date of Monday. Filling or not filling the script does not really matter here, allthough I would have opted to fill the script. He is then asked to go see the company physician who clears him to go back to work immediately with no restrictions.

I think that at this point I would have gone back to the medical facility where he had gone for the initial exam, showed them the paperwork from the company doctor, and asked for a reevaluation. A supervisor would have been asked to go with you for this visit. If the doctor stands by his original diagnosis and does not release you from duty until Monday you must abide by his decision as you cannot return to work until you are cleared. If the doctor decides to allow you to return but with restrictions then your supervisor must find alternate work for you (scanning?).

As for legal action for lost wages I would think that the fact that you waited until Thursday to seek medical attention would mean that you chose to forfeit those wages.

This is how the scenario should have gone down. You get hurt, you fill out the accident report, you go to the doctor, you file under comp, the doctor puts you out of work until Monday, you go back to the doctor on Monday to get cleared, you go back to work on Monday and you wait for the comp settlement. You could also choose to use personal/sick time to make up for the lost days. The ideal would be if the doctor would have released you with restrictions so you could have been put on light duty for the 4 days.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

In a hypothetical scenario a loader suffers a bone chip/small fracture + crushed toenail while loading in a trailor with an LOA on a Monday. The cause was the LOA continuing to run with packages on it and a 45lb box drops on the loaders toe. He went to the safety office and was looked at by his full time supervisor, the safety supervisors and other hub-wing supervisors (entertaining?) he did not file an accident report but the damage was observed and was offered to have an appointment with the company preferred physician. He politely declines and decides to wait a day or two so and see how it is.

On Thursday he breaks and decides to see an urgent care physician and fills out workers comp forms as the injury was sustained on the property, recieves an x ray and a physical inspection, followed by a copy of the x ray on cd, an open toed orthopedic shoe and a pain pill prescription he decides not to fill and is given a note saying he can return to work on monday, if the condition permits. He returns to work and his note is denied and is sent to the company preferred physician. He sees the physician and is told he can return to work immediately. I wont get into the doublespeak or intimidation from the hypothetical supervisors. Before the mandatory "Get an attorney" he has already spoken with one who believes he has a case for a modest settlement for the injury if not at the least compensation for the base hours missed due to injury. Where do you other UPSer's think he should go from there?

What type of advice are you looking for? Not really sure where else to go ...

injury, cover-up, harrassment/intimidation from mgmt, laywer involvement...

Let the laywer do the talking and rest the toe. Don't speak at all with management or anyone else for that matter about it.

In our state, you must be out 21 days to collect the first five days time lost in WC, no matter the injury. Milage will vary pending what state this is.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Hindsight is 20/20

bad advice in your post all-around.

Can't recover lost wages? HA. Locker room lawyer

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

bad advice in your post all-around.

Can't recover lost wages? HA. Locker room lawyer

This guy does not fill out an accident report immediately or go to the doctor until three full days after the incident and you think he is entitled to lost wages?

He did the right thing by reporting the injury; unfortunately that was the only thing he did right.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

This guys does not fill out an accident report or go to the doctor until Thursday and you think he is entitled to lost wages?

The person was injured on the job, management tried their best to coerce and intimidate them into not filing a report, the employee thought better of it to file the report and be safe instead of sorry. Of course they are entitled to lost wages if their state laws allow. The injury happened at work, management was well aware, all injuries and all people are not the same....injuries can get worse over time as well as heal...

If a witness to a crime did not speak right away when questioned by police, came back to the station two days later to file a witness report...is that information no longer valid?

 

[dannyboy]

In a hypothetical scenario... He went to the safety office and was looked at by his full time supervisor, the safety supervisors and other hub-wing supervisors (entertaining?)
OK, so which one of these guys went to med school? EMT maybe? What expertise to they bring to the circus?
he did not file an accident report
The part time employee did not file a report? Really? Why????? How long has this hypothetical employee been hypothetically working at UPS?
but the damage was observed
Damage observed, but yet the guy does not get it looked at? How freaking stupid.
and was offered to have an appointment with the company preferred physician.
Yup, standard procedure, give you a list of docs, you get to choose.
He politely declines and decides to wait a day or two so and see how it is.
Now, this is where he shoots himself in the foot. They offer, he refuses. That puts the liability back on your shoulders. Just like after a car wreck. The emt's offer you a lift to the hospital, you refuse. Dont care about how polite you are. Then later on, you pass out and end up in the hospital. You can not sue the EMT's, because they offered to take you on, but you refused. Not only that, but he decides to wait three days, not one or two. I could understand 24 hours, but 72? Please.

On Thursday
What the heck has he been doing since Monday? Working? So he plays doctor, and clears himself for work? Again, how stupid.
he breaks
Interesting phrase. First, you decline to fill out paperwork, and decline to see the doctor as was offered. And now all of a sudden, he breaks? Who broke him?

Oh I get it, you were macho tough guy, and thought you could tough it out and it would fix itself. Now all of a sudden, he realizes that he is not so tough, and becomes mr sissy pants.
and decides to see an urgent care physician and fills out workers comp forms as the injury was sustained on the property,
Ever heard of a day late, and a dollar short? So he decides to seek treatment. Was it from the list of docs posted at the center? In our state, if not, you get to pick up the tab for the visit. And all of a sudden, you fill out the forms to retro cover your behind?
receives an x ray and a physical inspection, followed by a copy of the x ray on CD, an open toed orthopedic shoe and a pain pill prescription
Standard ops for an injury. Interesting you wanted a CD copy of the xray........
he decides not to fill
Dang, this stupid maroon has not learned a thing, has he. First playing doc by not seeing one, and now, after being given instructions on treating the injury and pain, he decides to ignore the docs orders? Again, how stupid.
and is given a note saying he can return to work on Monday, if the condition permits.
OK, so he gets one day off, after working all week without any problems until Thursday, where all of a sudden, he stars having problems. Sounds more like he wants a long weekend.
He returns to work and his note is denied and is sent to the company preferred physician.
Again, he went off the reservation. This is what happens when he ignores workers comp law, and does what he wants. In our state, you get to pick up the tab for the office visit, and they have the right to send you to their doc.
He sees the physician and is told he can return to work immediately.
What, he was not impressed with your xray on CD? Must be that there was nothing that could be done. So he sends him back to work one day earlier than your doc? So what is the problem? Oh yeah, he wanted a long weekend.........
I wont get into the doublespeak
Why not, all you have posted is double speak. And you have made it very clear that this guy does what he wants, when he wants, and will not be told what to do.
or intimidation from the hypothetical supervisors.
What, first they offer medical help, and to fill out the proper forms, and all of a sudden, when he comes back from not seeing one of the docs on the list, all of a sudden they are intimidating him? I dont buy it.
Before the mandatory "Get an attorney"
Now, this is where your story really goes beyond what is believable. A sup tells you to get a lawyer? Really????
he has already spoken with one
Ah, now we get to see what type of guy this hypothetical guy really is. Ran out and saw a lawyer before he saw the doc? Or dont you know how to tell a story in proper sequence?
who believes he has a case for a modest settlement for the injury if not at the least compensation for the base hours missed due to injury
Talk about double speak. He thinks he has a case for a modest settlement? Really? For what, pain and suffering? He put himself back to work. So he did not miss any work. Now, in our state, the law is very clear. For the first 5 days, you dont get comp. You can only get paid for those 5 days after you have been off more than 15, and then it goes back and picks up the first 5. So by law in our state, you would not be entitled to the days off, even with a lawyers help.Where do you other UPSer's think he should go from there?

I think I smell BS. Either that, or this employee is very stupid. As far as the injury, the first doc said go back to work Monday, the company doc said Friday. That is not enough difference to warrant the type of reaction that he has taken. So there is something else behind this post. Been around long enough to know, if it smells, looks, and acts like BS, you can bet its BS.

Also, I would go ahead and pay your lawyer the fee, as I know dang well one would not take it for a cut of the settlement. 5 days worth of missed work for a part timer? REally? And he got a lawyer to suggest going after it? I dont believe it.

You asked

Where do you other UPSer's think he should go from there?

Go back to work!

d

 

[dannyboy]

The person was injured on the job, management tried their best to coerce and intimidate them into not filing a report,
Sleeve ole buddy, that is not what he said. He said the guy refused the offer of filling out the report, and transportation to medical care. The employee did that, not sups.
the employee thought better of it to file the report and be safe instead of sorry.
While you are correct, you have it back-wards. He did it because he was sorry, not safe. If it had been because he was safe, he would have done it on Monday, and had it checked out. But he politely refused, remember?
Of course they are entitled to lost wages if their state laws allow.

While states do vary, in our he would not be entitled to anything the first week, even if he had filed the report on Monday.

If a witness to a crime did not speak right away when questioned by police, came back to the station two days later to file a witness report...is that information no longer valid?

Really? You want to argue that point? As a lawyer for the people who you are a witness against, that very fact would allow me to shed credibility issues on your part at the trial. By the time I got through with you on the stand, you would actually help my case, instead of damaging my client.
The only saving grace is that they did take him into the office, and there were witnesses to the injury at the time it happened.

d

 

[UnconTROLLed]

While states do vary, in our he would not be entitled to anything the first week, even if he had filed the report on Monday.
Really? You want to argue that point? As a lawyer for the people who you are a witness against, that very fact would allow me to shed credibility issues on your part at the trial. By the time I got through with you on the stand, you would actually help my case, instead of damaging my client.
The only saving grace is that they did take him into the office, and there were witnesses to the injury at the time it happened.

d

I'm not sure either one of us have this right because of the lack of any detail

The employee may have declined BUT they also said there WAS coersion and harrassment/intimidation involved! Did you miss that part? do you know how hard three managers vs one employee in the office can be for someone who is easily misguided or unaware of the consequences?

This sounds like a fairly painful and serious struck-by injury that was not the fault of the employee. They tried their best to be a "team player" under the strong influence of management and perhaps some very serious threats, and help management cover up an injury but it only bit them in the foot, so to speak.

Would the average 20 year old, including yourself, know about the rules of workplace injuries and how such things work legally? I sure didn't back then.

I agree with you 100% about reporting the injury in a timely way, and not seeking immediate treatment; that was the decision and ended up being a mistake of the employee.

But bottom line-

You cannot place the blame on the employee when it is managements responsibility to treat every injury as a serious one and actually care about their people working for them. Mangement team should have acted and filed the report, however we know that someones MIP bonus and safety /injury/DART numbers would have been skewed and a reaming somewhere, somehow, would have been had.

 

[AnonyMusser]

Well the employee may be "stupid" (or maybe hes only been there a year or two, never been hurt to this degree on the job and didnt know the severity til the x ray, but he wasnt expecting to have bone chipped off and the injury wasnt his fault... I guess I will get into detail here, its not a mobster movie, but theres a degree of scumbaggery going on. When he returned his superiors asked him "kindly" to say the injury didnt happen on the property or the employee might get in trouble, or the supervisors would get in trouble, or the safety supervisor will get fired/fined, or the shift wont get to have a picnic before work to celebrate no lost time injuries for the year. Something drops on your toe you think "Ow" not "ca-ching!" Although Im sure he would appreciate the extra extra long condescending list Oh, and since when does getting a doctor to look at your an injury so you can return to work make someone a "sissy pants?"

For point of reference this is in Illinois, I dont know how much of a difference this makes.

 

[dannyboy]

Sleeve There are a lot of things that dont smell right when posted. I just point out a few. As I stated, state rules vary, and I am not familar with those in Ill. A comp atty would. But I believe it is pretty common in all 50 not to be paid for the first 5 days, unless you have been off more than 15, at which time you get paid for the first 5 retroactivly.

Anon, your claim of coersion is not until thursday. By that time, you have had three additional days at work, and then and only then does it become painful enough to seek medical help?

As a practical matter, any time there is anything even close to this type of injury, it needs to be documented. A sup should always document it. If not, the hourly can make a pretty strong case against a cover up of the injury. I know at one time it was a pretty serious situation.

When he returned his superiors asked him "kindly" to say the injury didnt happen on the property or the employee might get in trouble, or the supervisors would get in trouble, or the safety supervisor will get fired/fined, or the shift wont get to have a picnic before work to celebrate no lost time injuries for the year.

Now, if you can document this, I would file a grievance. While I have heard of this type of behavior, I have never ever seen it documented or any verification of that actually occuring. This would be dishonesty. Yes, the supervisor will have to explain why you were injured (visually confirmed) on monday, and you are not filling out the information until thursday? And he really does not want that type of focus on him personally from above. So a greivance is in order if you have any witnesses to that story.

Bottom line is that you screwed yourself.....ah he screwed himself.

Go back to work. Learn your lesson.

d

 

[whiskey]

The phone call to liberty mutual has to be made the same day as the injury. End of story.

 

[hondo]

In a hypothetical scenario a loader suffers a bone chip/small fracture + crushed toenail while loading in a trailor with an LOA on a Monday. The cause was the LOA continuing to run with packages on it and a 45lb box drops on the loaders toe. He went to the safety office and was looked at by his full time supervisor, the safety supervisors and other hub-wing supervisors (entertaining?) he did not file an accident report but the damage was observed and was offered to have an appointment with the company preferred physician. He politely declines and decides to wait a day or two so and see how it is.
......

I love this part (underline/color change by me). How many times was this reported to supe and was it documented on DECR?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Dannyboy, he did NOT goto work, right? He went home and rested for two days! On Thursday he went to his doctor. If I am wrong, agree more with you.

 

[menotyou]

He reported the injury. His obligation is done.

 

[AnonyMusser]

I love this part (underline/color change by me). How many times was this reported to supe and was it documented on DECR?

Spot help in a completely different wing of the building that day. As far as I know the roller hasnt been checked out. I do know some times the weight of packages pushes lighter boxes off that dont catch the grooves on the little belt, I can live with 4 lb boxes sliding into my shoulder, thats not the case though.

 

[AnonyMusser]

Bottom line is that you screwed yourself.....ah he screwed himself.

Go back to work. Learn your lesson.

d

Ah, you got me, it was me Im the stupid and lazy loader who screwed himself by getting injured through no fault of my own. I can live with your condescending knee-jerk reaction and you hearing only what you want to hear but you can take my explanation for what its worth, so let me without the ambiguity. I wanted to work that entire week. I work part time, I needed that money. I was injured THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN, and with the hope that it was just a booboo opted not to see a doctor. The reason I went to the doctor, TO FIND OUT IF NOTHING IS BROKEN SO I CAN GET BACK TO WORK ASAP, PAIN OR NO PAIN. And was then told that my doctor wasnt good enough and was made to miss out on another day. a good friend who works the shift before me drops pull out rollers on his foot (on accident) 2 years ago, suffers the same black toe/fracture, gets $1,000 minus 33% legal fees, still works there. Im getting advice from him on where to go as well, I came here to get other opinions, cause all I want is the ABSOLUTE BASE HOURS. So yeah if theres a lesson is it "Im a lazy crybaby who should just take my lumps and pray to Brown Almighty their shoddy machines dont cost me my job limb or life should this happen again?"

 

[AnonyMusser]

Dannyboy, I dont want to argue with you and Im not gonna go through your original pretty insulting post, I will entirely let that go. How about we start off on a new foot, preferably the one I still have intact? Also, I only talked the lawyer over the phone, my dad called him for me when I told him about being pressured to say to their preferred doctor for a return physical that the injury didnt happen at work. I dont have dollar signs in my eyes, I just dont take kindly to being bullied into lying to a doctor.

 

[dannyboy]

Ah, you got me, it was me Im the stupid and lazy loader who screwed himself by getting injured through no fault of my own. I can live with your condescending knee-jerk reaction and you hearing only what you want to hear but you can take my explanation for what its worth, so let me without the ambiguity. I wanted to work that entire week. I work part time, I needed that money. I was injured THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN,
The only poster on this site that did not know it was you, was you. As for fault, bubba, where did I ever say it was your fault you got hurt? Did I say you were lazy? You are putting words in my mouth. I believe the phrase is "thou protesteth too much"
and with the hope that it was just a booboo opted not to see a doctor.
Thats fine, no problem, see the doc on tuesday? Nah
Wednesday? Nope again
Thursday, yeah the pain broke me down, had to go see my doc, and fill out paperwork
The reason I went to the doctor, TO FIND OUT IF NOTHING IS BROKEN SO I CAN GET BACK TO WORK ASAP, PAIN OR NO PAIN.
And here is where the story gets really crossed up. You want to go back to work, pain or no pain. Your doc says monday, you go to the company doc, and he says tomorrow. And you argue the point? in your previous post it was

He returns to work and his note is denied and is sent to the company preferred physician. He sees the physician and is told he can return to work immediately

So what is the problem?

Also, while you did not say so, the fact that you did not elaborate if you were off on tuesday, wednesday, and thursday leads us to believe you were working those days. You wernt, but that is what it sounded like. So why, without working did the pain "break you" but yet you refused to use the meds the doc suggested you use?
And was then told that my doctor wasnt good enough and was made to miss out on another day.
Wait a minute. Your doc says to go back to work monday after you see him thursday. But you see the company doc who says you can go to work right away? How many days between thursday and monday in your neck of the woods?

And yes, after seeing a non comp doc, the company has the right to make you see a comp doc before allowing you back. Its not their fault you decided to do things your way. There are laws and rules governing the proper procedures on comp. You "felt" that they applied to the rest of the mortals at work, but not you. And now you are crying because they make you follow the rules, and think it is unfair?
a good friend who works the shift before me drops pull out rollers on his foot (on accident) 2 years ago, suffers the same black toe/fracture, gets $1,000 minus 33% legal fees, still works there.
Cha-ching. The truth comes out. He hits the part timers jackpot, so why not you.
Im getting advice from him on where to go as well, I came here to get other opinions,
Opinions are like rectums, every one has at least one, and most stink. And I guess you are finding that out, no?
cause all I want is the ABSOLUTE BASE HOURS. So yeah if theres a lesson is it "Im a lazy crybaby who should just take my lumps and pray to Brown Almighty their shoddy
Right, get only your base hours, that is why you talked to your friend and are going to see his lawyer. Good for you.
machines dont cost me my job limb or life should this happen again?"

Being a bit overly dramatic on that "lost limb or life arnt you? A real drama Queen.

That is not to say that all of the equipment at UPS works exactly like it is supposed to. I have shut down equipment at UPS for over a week because during the building safety audit, I discovered faulty problems that would have caused serious injury and quite possibly death. The workers in the area hated me for it, management hated me as well, because other audits did not identify the problems. But I did my job, and know I did the right thing. So unsafe equipment is used, and allowed to by used at UPS. But that does not solve your issues.

Dannyboy, I dont want to argue with you and Im not gonna go through your original pretty insulting post, I will entirely let that go.
How nice of you. But you are actually insulting us with the BS. My post to you was not insulting, it was yours trying to get us to believe the stuff you posted.
How about we start off on a new foot, preferably the one I still have intact?
Ah humor, poor attempt, but you tried.
Also, I only talked the lawyer over the phone, my dad called him for me when I told him about being pressured to say to their preferred doctor for a return physical that the injury didnt happen at work.
Now here is another real problem with your recantation. If you get hurt at home, your doc clears you to come back to work, not the company doc. So if I broke my foot climbing down out of my bunk bed at my daddys house, my own doc would clear me to go back to work. Not the company doc. You would only have to see the company doc for work related injuries. So how stupid does your management team have to be to make you see the company doc for a return to work on an injury that didnt happen at work? Your story is BS. Sorry. UPS does have some really stupid managers, but I find it really hard to swallow them sending you to the company doc with instructions for you to tell him it did not happen at work.
I dont have dollar signs in my eyes, I just dont take kindly to being bullied into lying to a doctor.

But you dont have the slightest problem telling lies here on this site, to people you are asking for advice.

My advice? Stop posting. Do whatever you need to do with the lawyer (and good luck with that), go back to work and work safe. If the machine is unsafe, you have the right and responsibility to report it, and follow up to see it was fixed.
d

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Danny, you're wrong.

UPS management was forcing me to see a co. doctor for what THEY thought was a non-work injury, to return to work, just a month ago. Did you read my thread at all?

What happens is, just an educated guess, UPS does not want any liability or footprints at all.

By seeing the company doctor without filling an injury report, it is a hush-hush wink wink visit to the orthopedist for 100% RTW clearance - one that satisifes the RTW policies, covers incase employee gets hurt again with same injury in the future, but does NOT CHARGE THE BLDG WITH A DART INJURY while injured. (which IT WAS)

It's almost the exact same treatment. I'm not at liberty to say anything else, legally, however that point was already published on here.