Innocent until proven guilty? yeah ok

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Puck, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. Puck

    Puck Man,Myth...Legend....

    I need some help fellas... Im by no means a perfect UPS guy on either side of things.. ( Union or UPS) but I show up.. I do my job I go home.... I have 5 years on the Job... Ive been in trouble for the usual stuff that the new guys all end up doing, flagging stuff, misdeliveries missing a pickup ( got there too late) ect. My Supervisors have never liked me mainly because Im not a yes man... I use my seniority to do the route I want to do ( im a split driver) and when they give me a hard time I go get a steward and excercise my rights given to me by the contract....
    well over the past year Ive been having a horrible stroke of luck with Customer concerns.... I think the total since 3/07 is 9... they range from the security guy giving me a hard time getting in the building when I was late one day... to me kinda laughing at some lady road raging and calling me every name you can think of when I was paralell parking on a main road... and recently a worker in recieveing at a walmart gave me a hard time cuz I tripped in the truck walking a heavy box to the loading dock and I dropped it so I wouldnt fall.. he was all upset about the box.. I told him that the box is replacable, my body isnt.. Im not going to get hurt trying to hold onto a box ya know? but of course the account UPS got on paper is alot different than what actually happened and it all is made out to make me look like the most horrible human being on the face of the earth...
    anyway... about 2 weeks ago I get called in the office and I get told that I am a liability to UPS and I can no longer be in the public eye and if I wanted to work I was to report to the Preload at midnight... My steward called our Union Rep and logn story short I get told to show up normal time the next day... I do so and get called in the office and get told that I am discharged and I have to go to arbitration and my steward envoked some article (22 I think) of the contract and I went out and delivered a route and worked trhe entire week no problem....
    on Monday I made a delivery to a home, a bulk stop large but very light boxes... 3 hand trucks worth to the front door... looked like noone was home so I usually put large home deliveries by the garage door in cases like that.... I had put half of them by the garage when the customer came out and asked if I could bring them to the door.. I wasnt feeling too well that day either so instead of talking I just nodded and started bringing them to him.... on my second trip I stack 2 up in a quick pace and the guy's wife says " dont throw them they are fragile" so my response was a simple "I didnt throw anything" she said " whatever" so I go back to the truck looking for the last 2 boxes and proceed to move some stuff around looking for their last 2 which were small boxes.... I moved 4 boxes of books for a school that were easily 35lbs each and in a UPS truck.. sometimes putting those from the shelf to the floor can be noisy.. so I did that then located their last 2 and got the signature and left..... the guy went ahead and called up UPS on me and said I was " throwing" their boxes around in the truck,was rude to them and when asked to not throw their boxes I replied in a manner that he would " slap one of his kids in the head if they talked like that" and then he says I drove over his lawn and had no regard for his property...
    UPS this morning takes me upstairs to an office with my Center manager, the building manager and a labor relations guy and proceed to tell me I am a "liability" to the company and that UPS drivers are given proper training in being courteous ect ect. and basically I am discharged ( again ) and have 2 choices... sign a letter of resignation or report to the preload....
    My union guy apparently did what he could today and is on vacation next week so I am forced to show up to the preload and do slavework until this is hashed out and we go to arbitration....
    I feel like Im being treated a little unfairly here when all of this is "he said she said"... Ive asked numerous times for help in how to deal with certain on road situations that happen and even asked a supervisor to ride with me to watch how I work and help me correct some fo the little things that I might be doing wrong that could rub people the wrong way... and of course since Ive had other customs complaints come up they dont believe my side of the story and right away pretty much say Im a liar... bottom line is I dont feel I deserve this treatment.. and how can they just pull me off the road like this?? It isnt fair... I play on 3 ice hockey teams, my wife tends bar at night twice a week ( we are a 1 car family also) this midnight-8am is going to ruin my social life let alone not make my wife too happy that she cant work her job..... as far as arbitration.. as anyone gone through this?? what do I need to do to keep my job? do I need to get customers I have a great rapport with to write letters for me? what do I need to do? Ive been having chest pains all day worrying about this.. neither my union guy or steward have contacted me yet letting me know what is going on....
  2. It has been known throughout the years, UPS customers lie, in some cases MORE than our leadership. Unfortunately, management will side with the customer unless the customer has a history of falsehoods. I would go to preload, work as directed, show up on time, dot every i, cross every t, and stay in contact with your BA and both shop stewards on the day shift and in preload.
  3. paidslave

    paidslave New Member

    Do not by any means sign a letter of resignation. If they fire you so be it. Worse senario you will be eligle for unemployment. In your case if there wasn't any written letter of warning given to you then you should have a job. As far as you knew you were up to par with other drivers and the only way to change behavior is through progressive discipline.!

    I would not go to preload if I were you. Tell them and the Union that you are all up for some additional training for customer service because the skills that you acquired are not working and you would like to correct this problem!

    Good Luck!:happy2:
  4. Cementups

    Cementups Box Monkey

    ^^ I like what he said
  5. currahee

    currahee Member

    Customers suck sometimes.It doesnt matter what you say the company will side with customer most times.
    Do your best to ride it out work the preload. I know it will difficult schedule wise, but you got a good job cant chance losing it.
    p.s. i wait a month and then throw a brick through the customers window
  6. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Don't wait on the BA to contact you, call him everyday if you have to until he gives you something to go on.

    I do have a question though. Why would you ring their bell before you had all their packages ready to deliver? When they get to the door, you should be repaired to deliver all. I can see not hand trucking everything up to the house before ringing, but to not have them all ready just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe if your methods were a bit smoother, everything else would be also.
  7. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I read this thread last night but wanted to take some time time to think before I submitted a post. I see a trend in your description of your customer concerns, some of which, if not most, appear to be what we used to call "rude hourlies" but are now called hourly personnel. We should keep in mind that when we describe situations involving ourselves it is very hard to remain objective, so it is my assumption that the events that you are describing did not occur as you have described and that your actions may have indeed warranted a concern. For example, the situation at WalMart clearly warranted a customer concern (my first stop daily is WalMart so I know what a pain they can be so you have to watch what you say and do) while your lack of professionalism while driving (laughing at road rage lady) clearly warranted that concern. The security guy concern was unclear to me whether that was the security guy at UPS or at one of your stops on road but it also appears to be warranted.

    I have to admit that I formed an opinion of you initially based upon your screen name and then upon the statement "My supervisors never liked me..." It sounds as though you need a reality check and perhaps this second chance that you are being given by working the preload will be your wake-up call to clean up your act and behave like the professional that you are supposed to be. We all have bad days and I have had my share of customer concerns (some warranted, some not) but the trend I see in your description of the concerns that you have received (9 since 3/07--that is almost 1 per month) shows me that you are indeed a liability on the road. We have a cover driver with a similar situation in our center (numerous concerns, use of foul language in front of customers) who is now driving a tug 4 days out of 5 and drives only when they really need him to. He runs all day, make his pickups too early and doesn't go back if asked to, makes little or no effort to locate bad addresses, chews tobacco while working--I think you get the picture.

    My center manager uses the word "perception" in almost every sentence, but I find it appropriate here. It appears that your customers have formed a perception of you and your performance and the way that you present yourself while performing your job. We are not performing rocket science here--as Deacon from King of Queens likes to say, "I drive boxes around Brooklyn." Anyone can deliver packages--look at DHL. It is the level of professionalism customers have come to expect from us that you appear not to be providing that may be the root cause of your excessive number of customer concerns.

    As was stated earlier, do not sign the letter of resignation. Sit down with your mgt team. Ask them for an honest assessment of your performance. You may not like what they have to say but it is crucial that you hear this. Ask them what you can do to turn this situation around. You may find that this job is not for you--it happens, this job is not for everyone. However, I would urge you to take this time to evaluate yourself and work hard to identify those areas of concern relayed to you by your mgt team and work hard to improve in these areas. Take the preload position--true, you may have to take another part-time job on the side but at least you will still keep you benefits and still have your foot in the door. It will also let you see how hard those kids work for peanuts and to see the opportunity that you had that you may/may not be able to have again.

    Good luck to you. I do hope that you are able to turn it around.
  8. I am a full time supervisor, so read on or ignore if you'd like. I read your post, and looked at the reasons that you feel you are being targeted, and I see: 1) you came in late 2) you laughed at a woman in road rage 3) you dropped a customer's package in front of them and 4) you came to work late again. The common denominator here is....YOU. It would be different if you were on time and falsely accused of being late, or acted as a professional when the woman was upset, or dropped the package and showed concern and apologized. The fact that your boss told you to report to the Preload was wrong, and he/she cannot do that, but the correct procedure is to work as directed and allow your steward / business agent to handle the incorrect instruction. If they told you anything different then they need to be educated. YOU DO NOT WORK FOR THE TEAMSTERS. So many people forget that. Follow instruction, your Teamster representatives would have had a field day with the management team not following the contract, and you would have won.

    More importantly, if you get your job back, you need to soul search. This job is not for everyone. If you continue to approach your job with the same mindset you will struggle every day. Right now, the situations you described make you look bad. Go to work, get there on time, act professional, and follow the methods so you don't get hurt (if I had to predict, that would be next). Make your job as bareable as possible through your own attitude and actions. Don't forget, your salary and benefits are pretty damn good. Get off the radar by adjusting your attitude and you will see that life will be much easier. I'm sure you don't like this post, but I am sincerely trying to help you out. If you don't change, you can think back to this post in a few years when you a) are unemployed or b) absolutely hate going to work every single day. Good luck.
  9. Puck

    Puck Man,Myth...Legend....

    The house had no active catrs in the driveway... one that was all apart and being restored and a boat on a trailer... house was dark as well... backed into the driveway of the house to put the boxes by the garage, customer came outside while I was in the middle of that, it was alot of boxes and I had to dig for a few of them as well.. I hadtrucked everything to their door after I had most of it by the garage..

  10. Puck

    Puck Man,Myth...Legend....

    thanks for the reply... while I understand the "perception is reality" theory understand Ive been a driver for 4 years and havent had any trouble like this until this year... you say this job " isnt for me" once again I disagree... I am good at my job... I like people, I like working outside I dont see why this is.. Im objective as possible when talking about myself... I am not a " rude hourly" I actualy take offense to that... its more of the fact that I have come across RUDE CUSTOMERS who have no consideration for a hard working person and take offense to every little thing and make me out to be the devil incarnate...... the problem here is I DO NOT KNOW TO DEAL WITH THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE... Ive asked for help on how to deal with these situations and I get " just say hello, get the signature and say goodbye" but lets be real... the ones giving that advice NEVER DID THIS JOB....

  11. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I think the situation has gone too far. You will probably be able to get your driving job back, but...... do you want it?

    I'm thinking that if you do, you should bid another center as quickly as possible. It will be easier to make a new start than have to work with a management team that obviously hates you.

    There are other jobs out there. Better jobs. Don't let them tell you that you could never do better. That is a lie.

    Good luck, let us know what happens.
  12. j13501

    j13501 Member

    Perhaps you need to remember that "THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE" are the ones that generate our paychecks. You may not like the answer, but I hope you see that UPS can't run a business where each driver decides for him/herself who is the rude customer that it's OK to be rude to in return. Drivers are expected to be professional, and the vast majority are excellent every day.
    All jobs at UPS are challenging- they have there good and bad points. One bad point for a driver is rude customers. Since we're in a service business, I would suggest that you take the advice of "the ones giving that advice(who) NEVER DID THIS JOB". You may not respect them, but when dealing with difficult customers, it is best to just say hello, get the signature and say goodbye.
    Take the time to talk to a senior driver who never seems to have any issues with management, the other drivers or his/her customers. I hope you'll hear some advice that helps you deal better with customers. It could just save your job. Good Luck
  13. Puck

    Puck Man,Myth...Legend....

    yes I do want my driving job back.. I like it very much contrary to the belief of the bosses... I also respect everyone I encounter... what I do not respect, is when I am spoken to about how to do my job when they seem to think that what I do is easy ... I agree I should try to get out of the center I am in if possible, but my union guy doesnt seem to want to get into that battle fearing others who want to transfer would flip out..... I firmly believe that things will be better with a change of scenery without a doubt...

    a few of you are belittling me somewhat here...are you supervisors?
    Look we all have bad days out there on the road.. some more than others... its stressful enough being a split driver,and like I said.. my outside of work life is far from easy going either.... again, Ive state all issues that CAN and WILL be worked on...

    I dont see why UPS never was or is willing to work with me on improving my customer relations issues..

    also I neglected to mention that Ive NEVER gotten any warning letters or been suspended for any of these concerns of issues... only put on 72's and they werent brought up again.. Isnt that them not using progressive discipline and going against the procedures clearly stated in the contract?
  14. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Let me preface this by stating that I am not a supervisor. I have put in my letter on several occassions but there was a hiring freeze in place and now, with 19 yrs in, it would not make sense (for me) to make a move at this point. I was also 8 years military prior to coming to UPS so the transition was that much easier.

    Your last post reveals more of the story than your initial post. I find it curious that your first four years were, for the most part, concern free and that it is only this past year where you have run in to some issues. You also describe your personal life as being somewhat chaotic, which may be impacting your professional life. I am sure by now you realize that UPS doesn't acknowledge us as having a personal life and could care less what issues you have there as long as you focus on the task at hand.

    You mention that you feel that a change of scenery would greatly help you turn this situation around. I agree, as do several other posters, but only to the extent that you are able to work to get back to the driver that you were during your first four years. I noticed throughout your posts that you tend to place blame on others for some of the issues that you have encountered on road. As I stated earlier, I think you need to sit back and honestly and objectively assess your performance and then work to resolve any issues that you find during this assessment. The incident with road rage lady was you--this can't be blamed on anyone else. Your response at WalMart was you. Your behavior at the bulk stop was you. Imagine how different the scenario had been if you had simply ignored road rage lady, completed your park, and delivered the stop without acknowledging or, even worse, responding to her behavior. Or when you were at WalMart, the tension may have been greatly reduced had you apologized (I don't care if you meant it or not) for dropping the pkg and assured the receiver that you would work hard to make sure it didn't happen again. Perhaps talking to the security guard as though he were a human being, acknowledging your mistake (showing up late), and going about the rest of your day. Your assumption at the bulk stop that no one was home and delivering to the garage rather than the front door was, in hindsight, incorrect and actually cost you more time than if you had followed the method of delivering to the usual means of entry. At that point, a simple "I'm sorry, I didn't see any vehicles and thought that no one was home, I'd be happy to bring the pkgs inside for you" would have gone a long way toward ensuring a smooth delivery sequence rather than the one that you encountered. Your lack of response may have come off as being rude in and of itself. We have a driver in my center who is not rude at all but has very little contact with his customers and that has come off as rude in their minds as I follow him and they have told me this.

    To sum up, take the preload position, take this time to self-assess your performance, take note of how hard these kids work for peanuts, and turn this around as it sounds like you have a lot to offer. If you are able to change centers, take advantage of that change to make a personal change because if you don't your problems will follow you. Good luck.
  15. ikoi62

    ikoi62 Member

    Im not management lets start with that.
    Part of this statement tells me that you have a hard time taking criticism from your customers or bosses, your attitude sounds like "i know what im doing you don't"
    the second quote kind of confirms it.

    this does not mean your cut out for this job,this just means you could be good at working at a amusement park or something like that.

    but you do work here so you have to change,bad days at home should be left at home and bad days at work should be left at work.
    don't sign anything do what they tell you to do and make a effort at improving.
  16. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    New guys flagging packages??? Isn't that an integrity issue???
  17. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    You asked for our opinions and we gave them to you. The majority of the posters are telling you that maybe, being a UPS service provider is not the job for you. I agree. Instead of fighting it, maybe you should look for a job that does not have such heavy customer contact (for the same kind of pay, look at a railroad job.)

    I can have a very sharp tongue and in 5 years of driving, I have had 2 concerns because of it, it has taught me to be a more humble person.

  18. Johney

    Johney Well-Known Member

    Never heard that term before could someone explain it?
  19. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I think he might mean flagging pickups??
  20. preloader

    preloader Bleeding Brown from ears

    More upsetting to me than you throwing your own job away is this statement of slavework. Would reflect quite the attitude in need of adjustment to me.