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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 96648" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Ah wonderboy, just what is the Neocon agenda? Oh certainly there is one but if you only look at the events under the current adminstration you will only glimpse a speck of it's true size and scope.</p><p></p><p>Might I make a suggestion. As a starting point that relates to the American Empire as we see it today, the best starting point IMO is with John Winthrop and his "City Upon a Hill" sermon in 1630'. This is the primordial soup from which Manifest Destiny sprang forth which gave birth to the Wilsonianism from which the principles of globalization via democracy has arisen in our modern times. From this vehicle came the vast expansion of federal powers that super accelerated during the FDR years and further increased during the Great Society years under Johnson. With Nixon came the ideas of going more global via detent and in this timeframe we have the former Trotskyite, who also in 1983' proclaimed how proud he was to has been a member of the Fourth International in 1940'. For those unfamilar with this term you might research Leon Trotsky to discover that answer. This former Trotskyite is named Irving Kritol and is called the father of modern NeoConservatism. For those unfamilar with Mr. Kristol he published an article in his son's publication a few years back on this issue so the publication should be a hint as to who the son is.</p><p></p><p>Also check out the following letter to then President Clinton and the names of the folks who signed it.</p><p></p><p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20061114195451/http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20061114195451/http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm</a></p><p></p><p>more letters to read:</p><p></p><p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20131010230936/http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20131010230936/http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm</a></p><p></p><p>As the 1970's came to a close, American conservatives were awakened in the political arena and thus ushered in the Reagan presidency. Reagan prior to election spoke of many conservative ideals such as gold backed currency, the end to fractional reserve banking and the reeling in of the Federal Reserve monetary powers as well as a strenghtening of military might but coupled with a type of renewed isolationism to not be entangled in foreign adventures. A return to the principle of "Don't Thread On Me" as I "Won't Thread On You" was music to many ears. With this, a promise to severly cut the size and scope of gov't as well as an end to the system of taxation this country had endured since the Wilson adminstration. It didn't take long for those willing to look to see that this whole effort had in fact been hijacked by the likes of early neocons like Jeanne Kirpatrick and Elliot Abrams for just a couple of examples. Many conservatives walked away and either said the hell with politics all together or engaged themselves into various 3rd party and other alternative means of expressing political ideals and beliefs. Some became hopeful again with the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994' but the door of reality was slammed shut when from the well Newt Gingrich praised FDR as an great savior when in fact if one is honest with the course from which he governed, at the least he was an out and out fascist in the strict meaning of the term of privately owned/so-called publically controlled. The Corp. run State of the Mussolini ideal.</p><p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html" target="_blank">http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html</a></p><p></p><p>There is also a benevolent model democratic fascism and a manevolent model democratic fascism and we error in never seeing the benevolent type.</p><p></p><p>The hard realities is that FDR among other American leaders stretched the principles of limited gov't so far that they broke in such a way as to setup the course of our gov't that we see today. Unlimited sex without a condom or any consideration of birth control will in time lead to 2 inevitable truths. The first is you will contract some type of disease that at best makes you very sick and that leaves longterm scars and even a shorter total lifespan or it could even kill you outright near the outset. The 2nd truth is offspring that you either never planned for or considered having to provide for or in many cases offspring that quite frankly is undesirable and actually harmful to your larger family unit that you in fact did have willingly and planned for.</p><p></p><p>In otherwords, think of the Neocons, Bush, Osama, Saddam, North Korea, global terrorism, high fuel prices, Hitler, ColdWar and International Communism, democrats, republicans, American Empire, nation building, etc. etc. as all offspring of FDR, Wilson, Manifest Destiny and finally the "City Upon a Hill"!</p><p></p><p>Oh sure, it's not that simple of a straight line as you could throw in many, many other factors of our history with much of that as the trunkline and the above mentioned American players as branches but in reality those above are as much a trunkline to us as one day Bush will take his place in the Trunkline too. Now you'd error if you thought that it was Bush alone as the fact is that Cheney is to Bush what Edward Mandel House was to Woodrow Wilson. Learn House and you will learn Cheney!</p><p></p><p>The problem with today and it's politics it that the so-called opposition from the other side of the isle are only opposed because it is not they who are calling the shots. If you take both sides and boil down to the core principles of just what is gov't and what is it's function you will see that both percieve it in the exact same way. Neoconservatism is nothing but a symptom of the disease. Look closer at the concepts of "planned societies" via centralized gov't models and thus you will begin to see a much different picture.</p><p></p><p>Good luck if you have the courage to go back 100's of years and come back forward. Also learn the European royal houses and specifically the ill will that old western European empires hold towards the Eastern power of old Russia and it's society and culture. There's lots more there than you think. Also understand the nature of our situation with the old British empire. The Anglo Empire hasn't died at all, it just moved it's corp. offices from "The City" to a new "The City"!</p><p></p><p>c ya wonderboy!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 96648, member: 2189"] Ah wonderboy, just what is the Neocon agenda? Oh certainly there is one but if you only look at the events under the current adminstration you will only glimpse a speck of it's true size and scope. Might I make a suggestion. As a starting point that relates to the American Empire as we see it today, the best starting point IMO is with John Winthrop and his "City Upon a Hill" sermon in 1630'. This is the primordial soup from which Manifest Destiny sprang forth which gave birth to the Wilsonianism from which the principles of globalization via democracy has arisen in our modern times. From this vehicle came the vast expansion of federal powers that super accelerated during the FDR years and further increased during the Great Society years under Johnson. With Nixon came the ideas of going more global via detent and in this timeframe we have the former Trotskyite, who also in 1983' proclaimed how proud he was to has been a member of the Fourth International in 1940'. For those unfamilar with this term you might research Leon Trotsky to discover that answer. This former Trotskyite is named Irving Kritol and is called the father of modern NeoConservatism. For those unfamilar with Mr. Kristol he published an article in his son's publication a few years back on this issue so the publication should be a hint as to who the son is. Also check out the following letter to then President Clinton and the names of the folks who signed it. [url]https://web.archive.org/web/20061114195451/http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm[/url] more letters to read: [url]https://web.archive.org/web/20131010230936/http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm[/url] As the 1970's came to a close, American conservatives were awakened in the political arena and thus ushered in the Reagan presidency. Reagan prior to election spoke of many conservative ideals such as gold backed currency, the end to fractional reserve banking and the reeling in of the Federal Reserve monetary powers as well as a strenghtening of military might but coupled with a type of renewed isolationism to not be entangled in foreign adventures. A return to the principle of "Don't Thread On Me" as I "Won't Thread On You" was music to many ears. With this, a promise to severly cut the size and scope of gov't as well as an end to the system of taxation this country had endured since the Wilson adminstration. It didn't take long for those willing to look to see that this whole effort had in fact been hijacked by the likes of early neocons like Jeanne Kirpatrick and Elliot Abrams for just a couple of examples. Many conservatives walked away and either said the hell with politics all together or engaged themselves into various 3rd party and other alternative means of expressing political ideals and beliefs. Some became hopeful again with the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994' but the door of reality was slammed shut when from the well Newt Gingrich praised FDR as an great savior when in fact if one is honest with the course from which he governed, at the least he was an out and out fascist in the strict meaning of the term of privately owned/so-called publically controlled. The Corp. run State of the Mussolini ideal. [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-toc.html[/url] There is also a benevolent model democratic fascism and a manevolent model democratic fascism and we error in never seeing the benevolent type. The hard realities is that FDR among other American leaders stretched the principles of limited gov't so far that they broke in such a way as to setup the course of our gov't that we see today. Unlimited sex without a condom or any consideration of birth control will in time lead to 2 inevitable truths. The first is you will contract some type of disease that at best makes you very sick and that leaves longterm scars and even a shorter total lifespan or it could even kill you outright near the outset. The 2nd truth is offspring that you either never planned for or considered having to provide for or in many cases offspring that quite frankly is undesirable and actually harmful to your larger family unit that you in fact did have willingly and planned for. In otherwords, think of the Neocons, Bush, Osama, Saddam, North Korea, global terrorism, high fuel prices, Hitler, ColdWar and International Communism, democrats, republicans, American Empire, nation building, etc. etc. as all offspring of FDR, Wilson, Manifest Destiny and finally the "City Upon a Hill"! Oh sure, it's not that simple of a straight line as you could throw in many, many other factors of our history with much of that as the trunkline and the above mentioned American players as branches but in reality those above are as much a trunkline to us as one day Bush will take his place in the Trunkline too. Now you'd error if you thought that it was Bush alone as the fact is that Cheney is to Bush what Edward Mandel House was to Woodrow Wilson. Learn House and you will learn Cheney! The problem with today and it's politics it that the so-called opposition from the other side of the isle are only opposed because it is not they who are calling the shots. If you take both sides and boil down to the core principles of just what is gov't and what is it's function you will see that both percieve it in the exact same way. Neoconservatism is nothing but a symptom of the disease. Look closer at the concepts of "planned societies" via centralized gov't models and thus you will begin to see a much different picture. Good luck if you have the courage to go back 100's of years and come back forward. Also learn the European royal houses and specifically the ill will that old western European empires hold towards the Eastern power of old Russia and it's society and culture. There's lots more there than you think. Also understand the nature of our situation with the old British empire. The Anglo Empire hasn't died at all, it just moved it's corp. offices from "The City" to a new "The City"! c ya wonderboy! [/QUOTE]
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