Just fired...I feel so dumb

[Feelsdumb]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here. I found this site after not being able to sleep the past few days and obsessing about my situation.

I would appreciate any point of view about what to expect.

I was driving the Friday air shuttle to our airport and punched out at 00:30. I was then needed in the morning to deliver Saturday air. I came when the air got there, at around 9:30. We had an unusually large amount of packages and one worker was on vacation the another had called off early in the morning. (not an excuse, just explaining my motivation) So I was sitting around with my sup waiting for my time to start. At that point it was inevitable that we were going to miss roughly 4 air packages commit times if I waited to start until 10:30. (Needing 10 hours off work, D.O.T. regulations) The idea came up for me to start working and that we would adjust my time so it showed I punched out at 00:00 the night before so I could start at 10:00 that morning. I was the one who physically wrote on my time card the 00:00 after he instructed me to do it. I began looking up my package addresses and loading my truck early and started. The exact time was not 10:00, it was earlier, but he said he would just change it to 10:00 and that he would add the extra time on at the end of my shift to cover the time I missed by starting early and adjusting my Friday night time card.

He then entered my time incorrectly, off by one minute, and it set off a red flag that I had only 9 hour and 59 minutes off before starting my new shift. This led to an investigation and questioning me on what had happened that day. I was asked by security to answer some questions and I had no idea what it was about and didn't have a guilty conscious because I didn't realize the severity of what happened. I refused the need for union representation because I wasn't thinking I had done anything wrong and it was a huge mistake. I admitted that I had physically changed my time card at the instruction of the sup and had started work before receiving the proper time off, 10 hours.

So after I was questioned and signed my statement I was told I could go back to work and I drove that night to the airport like normal. The next day I come in and my shift is covered and I am told that I am being fired for dishonesty and it is a cardinal sin. My center manager didn't want to fire me, they said verbally, and that they hoped I was able to get my job back because I was not trying to steal time and that my sup is responsible for the dishonesty charge. But the firing still stands and here I am, a few days later, unable to sleep and awaiting my grievance hearing. I am beside myself how dumb I could have been for putting my job in danger to try and help not miss Saturday air commit times. I have only worked there for 5 1/2 years and have never had any other type of violation or warnings. I'm terrified of losing my job for good. Anyone have an idea of how this will go from here? I tried to be as brief as I could, thank you for taking the time.

 

[gorilla75jdw]

#1 are you in the Union , if so or not have you contacted your Local union , and the business agent for whom represents your area . Tell him everything , he is on your side . Seems to me if your story is true , you were instructed , but were aware of what you did as a way to get around laws set forth not by U.P.S. or your union but by the state in which you drive . Your sup. should be held accountable because the state can come down on U.P.S. , but I think to some degree you will be held accountable as well . They might just make you sit out a week or so to make you sweat it ( hopefully) or they could follow thru and terminate you , either way your first step is getting your business agent involved , and never , ever think that you are doing the company a FAVOR , they could give ashyt about you . Always have a steward with you for everything .Good luck .

 

[Feelsdumb]

I suppose in my head I didn't really see it as much of a favor but as more of a "I'm screwed if I have late air deliveries." If I was thinking clearly then obviously it would not have been my fault if they were late due to the high amount of deliveries I had plus not being able to fill the rest of the shift to prevent missed air.

Also, in terms of doing work off the clock which I technically did before 10:00am, is that something that is going to go even harder against me? All if this was done after the sup approved it. (not excuse, just making it clear) In the end I ending up GIVING time to UPS. I do feel like I did something wrong for sure, I am just not sure if I should be 100% accountable for all that happened.

 

[over9five]

Did the sup get fired as well? I hope so.

I would keep repeating that I was working as directed. Make sure you're in constant contact with your BA as someone else mentioned.

Seems to me they violated your rights (even though you turned down union rep) when they had you questioned in a meeting that did lead to your termination.

I feel you will get your job back. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

If you what you have told us here is true you should get your job back. It is very important to have a union representative with you whenever you are in a meeting with management that may lead to discipline or, as in this case, termination.

 

[Anonymous 10]

You will be O K. Cover your ass in the future and be as honest as you would be as if your manager the blessed mother Jesus and the DOT is right there with you.

 

[menotyou]

I feel for you. It's unfortunate that some of us, me included, get into a mindset that we are somehow helping by working off the clock. I really hope you get your job back. Positive thoughts. WHEN you get your job back, NEVER SIGN ANYTHING, again!!!
Good luck to you.

 

[soberups]

The person who should be fired is the supervisor who condoned and approved of the dishonest action.

 

[Backlasher]

I have to say I'm sorry for you. I understand how UPS works and you feel the need to flex rules in order to favor them.

But, there is a real and serious reason for having D.O.T. laws and we must respect them above anything over UPS.

The D.O.T. rules are there not only for your safety, but the safety of all that may be near us COMMERCIAL drivers. You may feel alert and pumped enough to push threw but it's not worth the chance of enjuring yourself or others.

I hope you get your job back and when it comes down to it. We need to follow D.O.T. before we follow UPS. They preach one thing but behind closed doors say another to push us.

Don't forget to take your REAL BREAKS.

If they can sweet you into doing this then u are better off never to become a Fulltimer cause they will push for worse and you will be making even harder decisions then this. Stand up for what is right and not on their commitments if it meens to work against safety and break periods!!!!

Even if I did work and clock out at 1200. I wouldn't want to be back on a Saturday even@ 10.

I know what he did. If you clock out at 12. you can't clock in till 1001. something is screwy with the times were it has to be +1 min. It is like that in my area and I've read it on here that other areas have this issue as well.

I'm not trying to start a arguement of driver vs. manager but sence you were fired, THEY BETTER OF done something to that SUP for giving you the idea and also allowing and providing paperwork to falsify.

Drivers are so passive worried about their Jobs but WE HAVE TO ALL STAND 2GETHER ON THIS AND PUSH BACK, INCLUDING BREAKS AND TIME ALLOWANCES. We really could do more about this united and with union if we all did it 2gether.

We are as strong as our weakest member. I only cover and do seasonal But dude, it's hard to argue for the right things when PERm Full timers hide off and try to do what they can to clock out early. Makes the rest of us look like idiots.

 

[union4life]

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. I certainly hope you get your job back. You sound as though you truly appreciate the job you have. It surely speaks to the person you are and the reason you acted in the manner you "felt" was best for the company (which by extension, would be best for you). However, never mistake your role in the company. You aren't really helping anyone if you try to "skirt" the system. UPS won't address problems if you help cover them up. Let the managers handle to service failures without your help. If they do it dishonestly, that is on them. It is tough for hardworking, honest people to realize that "pride in work ethic" doesn't include doing "anything" for an imaginary goal. Always remember, poor planning on management's part does not constitute an emergency on yours.


I personally feel you will get your job back. If you do, please, please, please get involved in your local Union and protect the job you have for yourself and the ones coming up behind you. Given the tone of your public appeal, I think you place a lot of value in your job. You realize what a blessing it is to have a job with the benefits you have. That is what a Union does for the working man. Please don't make the mistake of thinking UPS "gives" the employees what they have. Collective bargaining works.

 

[Feelsdumb]

I know what he did. If you clock out at 12. you can't clock in till 1001. something is screwy with the times were it has to be +1 min. It is like that in my area and I've read it on here that other areas have this issue as well..

From the bits I could gather from people talking about it around me that is exactly what happened. I was on vacation last week which added to the need for the investigation. On Monday of last week, first day of my vacation after the Saturday when I worked early, I got a text from the manager who worked on Saturday. He said the system showed me one minute early and it put up a red flag and I needed to sign my time card, he made it sound like it wasn't a big deal.

One of the FT sups at my center told the PT sup that works at night to give my paper time card to a friend of mine that works the local sort for him to give to me to sign. They were not aware I had worked early, all they knew is that I needed to sign it. So the local sorter was given the time card during his shift loading the trailer. He ended up losing my time card. He said it probably fell out in the trailer when he pulled out his phone from the same pocket he put the time card in. From security's eyes I can see how this may look to them. I got the sense that they think I destroyed it, which would make no sense for me to do. They have asked me about it multiple times, and I have told them the truth I had no idea. The local sorter came back to the center realizing he had lost the time card and asked the package car washer to help him look around for it.

I'm just sitting in limbo waiting for my grievance hearing. I can barely remember the meeting with security that I refused union representation. They made me feel so guilty. It was a terrible feeling.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Who is running the show down there at your barn dumb and dumber. They gave your time card to some loader for you to sign while you were on vacation. That there is just plain stupid if your ba has half a brain he will get that supervisor fired. You'll be fine.

 

[union4life]

They made me feel so guilty. It was a terrible feeling.

Some lessons are learned the hard way. I hope you never turn down representation again.

If you feel pressured again remember this:
WEINGARTEN CARD(If called to a meeting with management, read the following
or present this card to management when the meeting begins.)
If this discussion could in any way lead to my being
disciplined or terminated, or affect my personal working
conditions, I respectfully request that my union
representative, officer, or steward be present at this meeting.
Until my representative arrives, I choose not to participate in
this discussion.

 

[menotyou]

Make sure YOU chose the representation. My BA is so far up the labor manager's butt, he can't tie his own shoes!!

 

[hypocrisy]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here. I found this site after not being able to sleep the past few days and obsessing about my situation.

I would appreciate any point of view about what to expect.

I was driving the Friday air shuttle to our airport and punched out at 00:30. I was then needed in the morning to deliver Saturday air. I came when the air got there, at around 9:30. Why did you arrive 1 hour early when you knew that you could not work prior to having 10 hours off?

We had an unusually large amount of packages and one worker was on vacation the another had called off early in the morning. (not an excuse, just explaining my motivation) So I was sitting around with my sup waiting for my time to start. At that point it was inevitable that we were going to miss roughly 4 air packages commit times if I waited to start until 10:30. (Needing 10 hours off work, D.O.T. regulations) Just to be clear, you were aware of the DOT regulations prior to this day?

The idea came up for me to start working and that we would adjust my time so it showed I punched out at 00:00 the night before so I could start at 10:00 that morning."The idea came up" is evasive. Who's 'idea' was it? How, exactly, did it "come up"? Who justified breaking the law?

I was the one who physically wrote on my time card the 00:00 after he instructed me to do it. What were the exact instructions? Was it something like "I'm instructing you to violate DOT regulations and falsify your timecard by changing your finish work time." ??

I began looking up my package addresses and loading my truck early and started. The exact time was not 10:00, it was earlier, but he said he would just change it to 10:00 and that he would add the extra time on at the end of my shift to cover the time I missed by starting early and adjusting my Friday night time card.
This just gets better and better.

He then entered my time incorrectly, off by one minute, and it set off a red flag that I had only 9 hour and 59 minutes off before starting my new shift. This led to an investigation and questioning me on what had happened that day. I was asked by security to answer some questions and I had no idea what it was about and didn't have a guilty conscious because I didn't realize the severity of what happened. I refused the need for union representation because I wasn't thinking I had done anything wrong and it was a huge mistake.
Did you refuse verbally or did you sign a waiver? They must have a signed waiver prior to questioning you without representation and smart managers will have Steward representation present anyway.

I admitted that I had physically changed my time card at the instruction of the sup and had started work before receiving the proper time off, 10 hours. That pretty much sealed your fate.

So after I was questioned and signed my statement I was told I could go back to work and I drove that night to the airport like normal. Gotta love UPS. We're going to fire you but go ahead and work one more day for us.

The next day I come in and my shift is covered and I am told that I am being fired for dishonesty and it is a cardinal sin. Rightly so. I'm seriously wondering how you would react to a supervisor 'instructing' you to run a red light or speed through a school crosswalk during an OJS ride. Imagine the field day the lawyers would have had if you had had an accident on that Saturday without 10 hours of DOT mandated rest.

My center manager didn't want to fire me, they said verbally, and that they hoped I was able to get my job back because I was not trying to steal time and that my sup is responsible for the dishonesty charge. I wouldn't consider myself one of the "let him die" personal responsibility crowd but now I'm having second thoughts.

But the firing still stands and here I am, a few days later, unable to sleep and awaiting my grievance hearing. I am beside myself how dumb I could have been for putting my job in danger to try and help not miss Saturday air commit times. I have only worked there for 5 1/2 years and have never had any other type of violation or warnings. I'm terrified of losing my job for good. Anyone have an idea of how this will go from here? I tried to be as brief as I could, thank you for taking the time.

What you did was incredibly stupid, as as you are at least 23 years old or older you should have known better. I see some outs that management left for the Union to get your job back, and if you have been considered a good employee this could be why. However, I'm not entirely convinced you deserve your job back as you demonstrated incredibly poor judgment. Granted, I've seen worse but this one certainly ranks in the top ten.

You don't state that you are a Union member, or perhaps you are one because you are, more or less, required to be in your State. If the Union does get your job back (I'm seeing it reduced to a time-served suspension if everything is as you have presented it here) then you should truly consider this a miracle and that you owe a heavy debt to your Local.

What happened to the supervisor?

Good luck.

 

[Feelsdumb]

The supervisor is on vacation this week. I know they contacted him but I don't think they have had a meeting with him. No ones has told me anything official. The only thing my center manager said was that they didn't want to lose either of us and that they would have to deal with the PT sup when he came back from vacation.

 

[brown_trousers]

What you did was incredibly stupid, as as you are at least 23 years old or older you should have known better. I see some outs that management left for the Union to get your job back, and if you have been considered a good employee this could be why. However, I'm not entirely convinced you deserve your job back as you demonstrated incredibly poor judgment. Granted, I've seen worse but this one certainly ranks in the top ten.

You don't state that you are a Union member, or perhaps you are one because you are, more or less, required to be in your State. If the Union does get your job back (I'm seeing it reduced to a time-served suspension if everything is as you have presented it here) then you should truly consider this a miracle and that you owe a heavy debt to your Local.

What happened to the supervisor?

Good luck.

agreed.. This issue goes beyond just company rules. DOT requirements are law. And it just doesn't matter if a supervisor tells you to disregard the law, you are expected to do the right(legal) thing. What if the same supervisor told you to disregard school speed limits? or told you it didn't matter if you had some beers on your lunch hour? the law is the law! But.... talk to your union rep anyways, sometimes those guys can work magic.

 

[cachsux]

Make sure YOU chose the representation. My BA is so far up the labor manager's butt, he can't tie his own shoes!!

Can he reach down and tie the managers?

 

[The Other Side]

What you did was incredibly stupid, as as you are at least 23 years old or older you should have known better. I see some outs that management left for the Union to get your job back, and if you have been considered a good employee this could be why. However, I'm not entirely convinced you deserve your job back as you demonstrated incredibly poor judgment. Granted, I've seen worse but this one certainly ranks in the top ten.

You don't state that you are a Union member, or perhaps you are one because you are, more or less, required to be in your State. If the Union does get your job back (I'm seeing it reduced to a time-served suspension if everything is as you have presented it here) then you should truly consider this a miracle and that you owe a heavy debt to your Local.

What happened to the supervisor?

Good luck.

This is the kind of indepth look into a situation that needs to be done(well done crow). Guys who do stupid things like this are a dime a dozen at UPS. The fact that this guy showed up for work an hour ahead of time shows he "intended" to cheat the system. He wanted to work off the clock, prepare his day (working off the clock) and do all the work instead of showing up on time, only taking what he could make service on, having another driver ready to take the rest of the work and working within the confines of the contract.

His biggest worry of the day seemed to be "making the air ontime". WHAT? When did that become part of your job description. Thats the job of the dispatch. "WE" dont own the dispatch or control what happens. If you showed ontime, took out too many stops and failed 10 packages, well, thats on the dispatch and not you.

UPS wants guys like you, guys who wil place themselves in jeopardy because they dont "think" for themselves. Youre so worried about the operation, you dont think about yourself first. You said "the idea came up" and you went along with the program.

I say, nice having you, hope you learned your lesson and good luck finding a new job.

TO the rest of the UPSers out there, hope you take this as a learning lesson of WHAT NOT TO DO. Maybe the next air drivers promoted will only take what can be serviced properly at the normal start time and they wont try to cheat another person out of a job by "cheating" the system.

I am so sick of young guys coming in and trying to do "TOO MUCH" because some supervisor wants to do more with less and improperly. If air is going to be failed, then you notify them that it will most likely be failed and they put another driver on the road.

We never work off the clock and head out on the road to "help out" the company. I have no sympathy for you in this regard. You made a choice. I dont care if the sups were involved or not, you were complicit with a bad idea. You cooperated and deserved to be punished.

Whether or not the sup gets disciplined is another matter. Its going to come down to your word vs. his word. I hardly doubt the supervisor involved will come forward and admit he collaborated with you on a scam to fool UPS.

If he did, you would not be unemployed.

My disrespect comes from your NOT electing union representation. This tells me you dont respect the union process. If you have been here long enough, you would know never to enter a meeting or sign a statement without the benefit of your steward present. You sound as if you believe you can do this all on your own and I say you should. Leave the union out of it as you did the day they called you in.

Be like BRETT and handle business yourself.

Guys like you need to be used as shinning examples of how NOT to perform at UPS. You may be lucky and the the DM will leave you out for a week and then return you as a favor to the local, but when you return , you better re think your position on how you conduct yourself at UPS.

Your start time is your start time, you dont have any other obligations to consider the operation other than that. If there are 25 air stops on a saturday and you can make proper service on 15 of them, then thats what you tell the dispatch. IT ISNT YOUR JOB to find a solution to THEIR problem.

If you come back, you better have learned your lesson, if not, good luck at your next job.

Peace.

 

[over9five]

Still no damn dislike button....