Let's Talk More About Lasership

[MrFedEx]

Another thread talks about the Lasership settlement with contractors that says the should have been employees. Curiously, there wasn't a lot of commentary from the usual cheerleaders for Ground. The settlement agreement is 25 pages long, but the essence of it is that Lasership "won" in trial court, but was going to lose on appeal, so they settled. This case sounds exactly like FedEx Ground and their relationship with an IC. The ISP, which has been legal so far, requires contractors to own multiple routes, thereby creating "true" independent contractors. We shall see.

Lots of work for little pay, and major profits to those running the scam. Analogous.

 

[M I Indy]

Call it what you want, IC, ISP, FU2, etc. Essence of the debate, litigation, whatever is about control. What is a "true" independent with Fed Ex? Is it one contractor that has multiple routes, yet, only one customer? Or is it one contractor with one route with Fed Ex, yet, has multiple customers? IMO it's neither due to the amount of control Fed Ex has over the contractor and the vehicle(s). Multiple route can't negotiate new customers because of control Fed Ex has over hours and fleet. Single route can't service multiple customers due to control Fed Ex has over hours and vehicle. I know every customer needs to have parameters of control, no argument from me here, but, how much? Independence or slavery? Subject to interpretation, which is why we discuss on this forum.

 

[bbsam]

But there's another side to that. There is a lot of business that Ground can't touch because an IC or ISP in an area can't or won't pick it up.

 

[dezguy]

But there's another side to that. There is a lot of business that Ground can't touch because an IC or ISP in an area can't or won't pick it up.

Out of curiosity, why would a contractor be unwilling to pick something up? I could see if it is a distance issue and not worth the cost but to me, if there was money to be made, I would make sure it got picked up.

 

[bbsam]

Out of curiosity, why would a contractor be unwilling to pick something up? I could see if it is a distance issue and not worth the cost but to me, if there was money to be made, I would make sure it got picked up.

Not worth the headache of having a daily scheduled pickup across town and with a pickup window of 3 to 5 and averaging 3 boxes a day. FedEx could make a killing, the contractor wouldn't even pay for the fuel across town and back. Now if the customer is fine with an earlier pickup when the route is making deliveries, or if another driver can be routed through there, then fine. A lot of times, neither is possible.

 

[dezguy]

Not worth the headache of having a daily scheduled pickup across town and with a pickup window of 3 to 5 and averaging 3 boxes a day. FedEx could make a killing, the contractor wouldn't even pay for the fuel across town and back. Now if the customer is fine with an earlier pickup when the route is making deliveries, or if another driver can be routed through there, then fine. A lot of times, neither is possible.

So basically, if the pickup isn't ready when the delivery is being made or when the driver is in the area, it isn't getting picked up?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

So basically, if the pickup isn't ready when the delivery is being made or when the driver is in the area, it isn't getting picked up?

It sounds like the opportunity for a pickup is there but the revenue does not cover the cost(s).

Sounds like a good sales lead.


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[MAKAVELI]

It sounds like the opportunity for a pickup is there but the revenue does not cover the cost(s).

Sounds like a good sales lead.


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I don't think you even need to put in a lead when they're refusing to pick it up. This is exactly why if express went to contractors it would be the death of the company.

 

[dezguy]

It sounds like the opportunity for a pickup is there but the revenue does not cover the cost(s).

Sounds like a good sales lead.


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Why would a customer want to ship with FedEx if ground is already refusing to pick up their stuff? 95% of customers don't even know that Express and Ground are separate companies, so if they're not getting their stuff into the FedEx system with Ground, do you think they're going to call FedEx back up and ask for an Express pup?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I don't think you even need to put in a lead when they're refusing to pick it up. This is exactly why if express went to contractors it would be the death of the company.

They are not refusing to make the pickup---it sounds like there is no daily pickup due to the shipper and contractor being unable to establish a pickup time which works for both of them.


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[prodriver]

I don't think you even need to put in a lead when they're refusing to pick it up. This is exactly why if express went to contractors it would be the death of the company.

It wouldn't be the death of company, express would start showing profits.

 

[M I Indy]

Sounds more like Fed Ex has controlled the "independent" so much, that they realize it's not their "business", so why bother with taking time to establish times with shipper. Next day Fed Ex can reconfigure their "business" to meet Fed Ex (the independent's customer) needs. Shipper is Fed Ex's customer, not "independents", one of the many flaws with the model. And no, they are not mutual, Fed Ex has testified as such. Sammy said so well "not worth it", until Fed Ex (customer)says you have to. True independence, eh?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

....or could it simply be that the shipper is so small that the revenue does not cover the costs and the pickup is not worth it....


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[dezguy]

It wouldn't be the death of company, express would start showing profits.

We would lose a whole lot of business if Express operated like ground and refused pickups. As it is now, if Express gets a call for a pup, we pick it up regardless of where it is or how many packages they have.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

How much do you guys charge for an on call pickup?


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[dezguy]

How much do you guys charge for an on call pickup?


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We don't charge for a pickup. The customer is charged based on weight or DIM and where the package is going.

 

[bbsam]

So basically, if the pickup isn't ready when the delivery is being made or when the driver is in the area, it isn't getting picked up?

We are talking about scheduled daily pickups. If an early pickup doesn't work for them and no other route can make it there then no, it's not going to happen. FedEx isn't getting that account.

 

[M I Indy]

I think we are missing the point, Sammy is saying "not worth it" and he is right. If shipper were to call in for pick up and Fed Ex scheduled it on Sammy's route, would he say "not worth it", only under his breath, because he can't refuse his only "customer" (Fed Ex). Sammy cannot make that "business" decision, because it's his "job" to service his "customer." Sammy is trying to sound independent, when he is really directed like an employee.

 

[dezguy]

We are talking about scheduled daily pickups. If an early pickup doesn't work for them and no other route can make it there then no, it's not going to happen. FedEx isn't getting that account.

Ok, thanks. I didn't know exactly how that worked with ground.

 

[bbsam]

I think we are missing the point, Sammy is saying "not worth it" and he is right. If shipper were to call in for pick up and Fed Ex scheduled it on Sammy's route, would he say "not worth it", only under his breath, because he can't refuse his only "customer" (Fed Ex). Sammy cannot make that "business" decision, because it's his "job" to service his "customer." Sammy is trying to sound independent, when he is really directed like an employee.

if it is a call in pickup, I get that information in the morning and it is picked up during deliveries, therefore it is worth it. Occasionally some shippers will call during the day and ask for a "same day pickup". Sometimes they get it, but we likely won't backtrack for it.