Load retainers...we are screwed. Final report....

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
I don’t need confirmation from either the union or UPS. That’s the law. The company can’t force you to do anything “unethical, illegal, or unsafe”. Not checking your equipment en route would be all three of those things. That’s an easy win, and if not, an easy lawsuit. “100%”
Well...ok.

But what you keep avoiding or missing...is it in fact the law as it pertains to our operations.

Our District says No.

I would advise/encourage you to get a written confirmation.

Not sure what your lawsuit would be about....
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
You need to chill out dude. They’re just boxes. Don’t let it run your life.
The consequences are wide ranging from fines to a catastrophic event. You are truly gambling with lives.

You need to be more concerned.

I do believe this new policy will be tested. With a terminated employee. He will be the fall guy.....
 

Shift Inhibit

He who laughs last didn't get it.
The consequences are wide ranging from fines to a catastrophic event. You are truly gambling with lives.

You need to be more concerned.

I do believe this new policy will be tested. With a terminated employee. He will be the fall guy.....
They load the trailers so tight/full here, theirs no room for a load brace or strap.
 

Shift Inhibit

He who laughs last didn't get it.
Called 5 different offices....no answer at any of them. I spent about an hour....
When you pull your trailer, why not just spend 2-3 minutes extra and put a load brace or strap in yourself? Are they telling you not to?
Serious question, just trying to figure out why you’re being such a pain in the ass
 

G.V. Rush

All Encompassing Member
The consequences are wide ranging from fines to a catastrophic event. You are truly gambling with lives.

You need to be more concerned.

I do believe this new policy will be tested. With a terminated employee. He will be the fall guy.....
UPS is gonna do what they want to do. Their reward outweighs the risk. Corporations are awesome aren’t they?
 

DriveInDriveOut

Proud Deplorable
And when they don't?
They're loaded side to side wall to wall.
There's really no chance of rollover from shifting and a load bar wouldn't help with that anyway.

They're also loaded front to back.
Hard braking shifts the load away from the door not towards it. Loads falling against roll doors don't break through the door they pin it closed, I've seen it countless times.

The only real concern I can think of is a 90% load falling against an old rotting plywood swing door on the POS trailers UPS leases.

If you want a load retainer then use one, I don't know why you're obsessing about it though.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
You've stumbled on a pretty good question.

BCer's claim you have every right to stop when you need to do such.... legally and on the clock.

Ok. But do you? How do you define "a bigger problem"? The Company? Does the Union support you? DOT?

But then...aren't part timers only given 10 minutes in a 3-5 hour shift? Used to be that way. And so, you are expected to go only during your 10 minutes? And as a feeder/pkg driver driver between the 3rd and 5th hour? Or according to your schedule?

A lot of declarative statements are made on BC. Are they in fact true? Or highly subjective?
no as a part timer you go whenever you need to. Told the sups plenty of times in the sort isle find someone to cover me. Im going to the restroom.
 

Buffet Master

FEEDAH FATTY
Is UPS declared oil field operations? Is UPS declared agriculture operations? No? Then what is this exemption you claim UPS has? Show me the federal language specifying UPS can do WTF they want.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Is UPS declared oil field operations? Is UPS declared agriculture operations? No? Then what is this exemption you claim UPS has? Show me the federal language specifying UPS can do WTF they want.
Well, I can't. Again, This "decision" was "interpreted" by our Division.

How the discussions went.....Me: It is the law. Mgmt: That language does not apply to UPS(based on sealed 6 sided loads). That's it. End of discussion.

Ok.
What now?

Serious question.

Silent Union. Drivers don't care, in fact happy to not mess with retainers anyway. Or any other safety protocols.
 

Buffet Master

FEEDAH FATTY
Management is wrong. Do you go by any open scales or ports of entry, if so pull in around back, walk in and ask the Leo's on duty for their interpretation. I've never had a problem through the years asking an officer to give me an interpretation. Most of those guys are decent people.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Management is wrong. Do you go by any open scales or ports of entry, if so pull in around back, walk in and ask the Leo's on duty for their interpretation. I've never had a problem through the years asking an officer to give me an interpretation. Most of those guys are decent people.
Fair enough.....Mgt. is wrong.....I really don't know. How do you? Exactly please.

With all respect, you know this 100% because......? A trooper has interpreted these statutes for you? Because.....this exact scenario was at your building....and?

See, if you review each of the responses here on BC...they range from hatred and belittling to UPS is gonna do what it's gonna do to yours to who cares anyway, just go get one......that's a pretty wide range.

And say, what if the trooper says "yep....your Mgt. is correct....".

That would be a pretty cosmic shift.
 

Buffet Master

FEEDAH FATTY
I asked you to show me the federal language specifying UPS can claim being exempt. Your response? I can't. That is an answer in itself. Go talk to a active on duty LEO yourself. It does not matter what I say, what I would provide so I'm not going to. You are not looking for an answer, you are looking to argue about what you think you know.
You are a 40 year company guy, have existed within a brown bubble for that time. You take the word of the place that paid your bills and lifestyle most of your life as undisputed truth. I get it. But short of you taking the initiative to talk to the people who interpret and enforce yourself, you aren't going to get an answer that you will take over someone in management saying "we're exempt" If we are exempt, then there is federal language on the books stating the specific exemption ups is claiming.
It doesn't work that I have to disprove what your manager said, it works that your manager has to show you his basis for his statement. If he can't do that, there is no legal basis, just his opinion.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
I asked you to show me the federal language specifying UPS can claim being exempt. Your response? I can't. That is an answer in itself. Go talk to a active on duty LEO yourself. It does not matter what I say, what I would provide so I'm not going to. You are not looking for an answer, you are looking to argue about what you think you know.
You are a 40 year company guy, have existed within a brown bubble for that time. You take the word of the place that paid your bills and lifestyle most of your life as undisputed truth. I get it. But short of you taking the initiative to talk to the people who interpret and enforce yourself, you aren't going to get an answer that you will take over someone in management saying "we're exempt" If we are exempt, then there is federal language on the books stating the specific exemption ups is claiming.
It doesn't work that I have to disprove what your manager said, it works that your manager has to show you his basis for his statement. If he can't do that, there is no legal basis, just his opinion.
Yesterday(Saturday off duty), I encountered a State Trooper working an accident. He was just filling out the report and I stopped to ask him of this subject. He simply didn't have any idea....he is a 15 year Trooper. He never wanted to do that kind of work. He did give me his sergeants number and I'll call Monday. Ok.

So far, I have yet to get any DPS office to answer the phone or they redirect you to the DL office.

I don't "go by any scales....". Any DPS office is miles from my home. Any recon will directly take rest/sleep from my schedule....I work 60 hours a week. Excuses? Yeah.

You take shots at me. Of which you make many assumptions. Say, didn't you say you were a 2 million mile driver? Where did you get this 2 million miles...at UPS? How long have you been at UPS? You've been a UPS feeder driver your whole life? And this bubble you speak of? Not sure what that is....my career is a little unusual(being I spent 9 years in Automotive) true but generally pretty normal...started part-time, went full-time, pkg car and then feeders....bubble? Hardly. And being that you don't know me personally AT ALL!.....you can't help yourself but attack me....personally. I'd really like to know why.

To be clear and review....my career time has nothing to do with this subject. I've been in feeders for 15 years....we've ALWAYS used load retainers....wasn't even a thing. You didn't pull until you had one and it was deployed. Period. Settled history.

It is interesting that you are making declarative, legal conclusions....absolutes. As if you are the arbiter of law. See, if you review all the responses on this thread...they vary widely...some supporting your conclusions....some not. Hardly definitive.

Again.....who to trust or believe or listen to or follow instruction.....You? Mgt? A highly subjective Trooper? Again....I don't know. They show me the reg and say "See, this doesn't apply to us for so and so. While the Safety Co-chair/Union Steward nods in agreement. I don't know. You showing me that reg. doesn't as you say....mean anything. True. See?

I was told by an ORS that they have 45 days to address a safety concern...I responded that you have 45 seconds to fix this.....to be legal....they say not so. See?

I was asked if I was willing to basically lose my job over this.....to be clear: no. But why does it have to get to that point? Either they are required or not. This seems pretty strait forward and without controversy. Again, I can work as directed or eventually get fired over this. Remember, the Union is silent and completely reactionary. Lose your job......with an outcome that is uncertain. With most feeder drivers saying (30 year guys) "Do what you gotta do..." Hardly helpful or definitive. Bowing up and refusing to pull a load will have consequences....of which I am not certain. Scared. No. You got to be smart about these things......that's experience talking.

Btw, interestingly, the Trooper had "loaded pkgs for UPS"...before going into the Army and Iraq and eventually becoming a Trooper.
He did mention taking on UPS and all that could be. He also mentioned that Troopers don't generally Level 1 inspect UPS because we are generally squared away and it would be a waste of time.....his words.....Fed-Ex another story.

And....say the Sergeant Trooper says UPS is wrong.....then what? Do I go in next shift and say you are mistaken MGT. and I refuse to leave without a load retainer? I would at least have to have a written statement from the Trooper. Do you really think that will happen? Short of the Trooper meeting with my Division Mgr........I don't have any solid/legal footing to not follow instruction without discipline up to and including discharge.....sound familiar? No? I know better. I did text the District Transportation Mgr. No response.

SEE?

BTW, I'm not here "to argue".......I'm here to find out if load retainers are required.....this is a pretty basic concept. Either they are or not.
 
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