Local 2727 and UPS to meet in D.C.

Discussion in 'UPS Airline / Gateway' started by airbusfxr, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. airbusfxr

    airbusfxr New Member

    On Dec. 15th Local 2727 and UPS V.P. of Labor, Brian McCabe will meet in Washington. The meeting will consist of members of the NMB and Teamster Airline President Captain Dave Borne. The topic will be why UPS is not bargaining (and I use that term loosely) in good faith. The NMB which has been overseeing the contract talks (for a LONG TIME) has grown tired of UPS not showing a "sense of urgency" to wrap up three years of talks for an expired contract. The Airline Mechanics have provided UPS with a safety record that is the envy of Airlines throughout the world. Members are providing a valuable service commitment that ensures UPS Aircraft fly around the world in a safe, on-time scheldule that ensures customers needs are met, which in terms PROFITS the company. Three years with no benefit or wage increase while Grade 20's have filled their pockets, ALL mgt loaded up with MIP, and the company has reaped records profits (even though the make many bad business decisions) has the everyone growing tired of this type of treatment toward people that are ensuring the company continues to prosper.

  2. I guess that is one side of the story.
  3. BrownSuit

    BrownSuit Active Member

    What's your side?
  4. Bad Gas!

    Bad Gas! Active Member

    You mean UPS makes bad business decisions...? Come on, not UPS.....LOL
  5. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Air, you have all the power needed right to now to draw this to a conclusion. Imagine what would happen if ups planes could not take off this close to peal. While at the same time trying to grab up all the dhl business. Time to push ups's hand a little and get your winter wear out just in case.
  6. BrownSuit

    BrownSuit Active Member

    I think it's great that the Union didn't threaten to strike three years ago. It shows that there was a degree of trust there, hopefully it is still there 3 years later.

    Both sides though have dragged this out way too long. It takes two to tango. Both Corporate and the Union.

    As for the employees without a raise, as was pointed out earlier once a new agreement is passed, everybody will likely receive a nice plump paycheck with back pay.

    Hopefully for them and their families, it happens soon. I'm sure that they would love to have it after Christmas.

    The sad thing is that if these were non-union employees they would be evaluated based on performance and receive some sort of raise annually.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  7. The NMB has summoned both sides to Washington to try to move these talks forward. They have requested "higher level management" on both sides to try to get things moving. If you notice the Teamsters are not just sending the normal negotiations team either. This is just spin by the 2727 to try and rally the troops against the company.
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Agreed takes two to tango and two to drag out the talks.
  9. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Red I understand that we are looking at this from different viewpoints. I don't think I'll get you to change your mind, and you probably won't get me to change mine. But at least we can see if we can see each other's viewpoint.
    Yes, these folks haven't gotten any benefit changes in the last 3 years or so. Let me ask you, what percent of the people have had "improvements" in the last 3 years? I'd say not many. How many have had to pay more for healthcare. I'd say quite a few. How many pay 0 for their health care. I'd say extremely few. I don't see how they could get sympathy from the general public on this one.

    Pay rate. They are already the highest paid folks of anyone in the industry (based on prior Browncafe and other websites). If I'm not mistaken the pay rate was over $40 per hour. Again it's pretty hard to get people sympathetic when you are the highest already. If you compare Scott Davis our President and CEO, you'll see that although paid highly, he's no where paid as much as other CEO's.

    Finally the economy. In this economy with hundreds of thousands out of work and more worried about losing their jobs, houses etc. I don't see much support for folks who make as much as they do, who don't have to contribute for health care.

    Finally a comparison to what you mentioned, to the UAW. When there was only 3 companies (Ford, GM, Chrysler). The UAW routinely struck one company then forced the other companies to follow. Now, there pay is very high, their benefits very good. their jobs in trouble because the companies are going under. Partially due to being uncompetitive on their pay rate vs their foreign competitors. There's other reasons, like bad designs, poor management etc.

    I would think that posturing and threats would hurt us (with our customers) and effect all of our jobs.

    Anyways. That's my two cents.
  10. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    Id have to agree beentheredonethat more then anyone, most AMX make 40+ an hour work 3 14s which just behind upper mangement and pilots would be the highest paid workers in the company and have some of the easiest jobs in the company, Im not saying they dont work hard or theyre are lazy but unless there is scheduled maintence they have maybe 20 minutes of work to do at the arrival and departure of the flight since most gateways and hubs (barriing SDF and ONT) you may only get 30 or 40 flights during a 14 hr period which if one AMX was working it would be a perfect work load but with flights coming in speriodically theyd probably have 6-8 on duty...

    Also with the OP yes we keep our planes in the air more consistently then other airlines but the FAA on more then one occassion has had a problem with the lets get it done lets make money style of doing business.
  11. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Sorry Tie, gotta disagree with that in part. It does take two to do the dance, so if one does not co-operate you can put a halt to the music. You can't drag your dance partner around the floor.
  12. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    trplnkl. The company wants to have a contract in effect with it's union employees. When they don't, there's always the threat of a strike, or the rumors of such. It makes our customers jittery and nervous. Not a good thing to have happen, espescially in this economy. Think of it, if the company has a goal of reducing health care costs, like all other companies are doing. Not talking with company in effects keeps health care for free while the contract is in negotiation.
    This is definitely an issue with both sides.
  13. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    We too are the highest paid in the industry and for good reason as so are our mechanics. Now put your self in there shoes. 3 years without a contract, now eventually something has to give. Now if there was a perfect time to force ups's hand this should be it.

    Many on here would be looking for blood if we had worked 3 years under an old contract with no new wage increases or benefits, why should it be different for our pilot mechanics?
  14. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Well, if for the last three years nothing changed with my benefits I'd be tickled to death. Since in the last 3 years, I've had a lot more to pay in for my health benefits. But the mechanics there don't pay in at all. I'd be willing to trade with them for that. Also, you mentioned the mechanics are the highest paid in their industry, and so are the drivers. Well in my career I'm not. Don't get me wrong, I make a good salary and I have pretty good job security and still a pension to look forward to. There was a time, when I started I was higher paid then other people in my career path, but that has changed and UPS hasn't kept up. In my opinion it's not worth leaving for, due to the reasons already mentioned. So I guess I look at it from a bit different perspective.
  15. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    how about a 4% increase....that gets paid into your bennies?
  16. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Well by reading your post it appears you are not a union employee, correct? I could see were you are coming from but understand that i for one am sick off hearing people say that we are paid too much.

    Not many people could do what a ups driver does day in and day out and i believe that we earn every penny that we make. Now if the company was not making money i would be willing to cut back and or take a freeze. But ups is still profiting a boat load.

    Now as a driver i do not see air runs coming late to my building all that often so i have to side with my brother mechanics. Its obvious that what they do they are great at servicing the air craft and avoiding delays with would cost ups tons of money in service failures. So they too are the best in the industry and also help to keep ups profitable.

    As a member of our negotiating team here on our current contract i have seen first hand how ups will drag out the procedure, until they understood how serious we were at the time.

    Now with ups doing there best to gain the old dhl business away from FedEx this would be a great time for a stand to be made. Imo

    DO i want to see a strike? No But i would like to see this taken care of to avoid lost business and sometimes you have to get ugly to protect what you have. And shutting down all of our airports this close to Xmas would force ups's hand to settle.
  17. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Drewed, I made two points.

    Pt 1, I pay more into bennies then I used to over the last 3 years and the mechanics don't pay a dime and they are indicating they haven't had improvements in health care. My point is not having additional cost out of pocket for health care is improvements when you compare to 99% of the people out there in the private sector.

    Pt 2. As was mentioned, both the mechanics and drivers are the highest paid compared to their peers. My point is in my career path, we aren't the highest paid in our sector. Again, it's not worth leaving for due to security etc. But my perspective is different when you see other people the highest paid compared to their peers, and the talk is to strike to increase the difference more and it was suggested to do this before peak to wield as much leverage as possible. Personally I think that's wrong.
    I also think that's what's happened at the UAW and GM\Ford\Chrysler. I think that's PART I'll repeat again , it's PART of the reason the auto industry is in such trouble today.
  18. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    You are right. I'm not a union employee. I was when I first started while at college. I then went into PT mgmt as an engineer while going to college for Ind Engineering, then went back to union as a driver for 9 months and then was promoted to a FT Supv.

    You can read every post from me, and I never have said our SP's are paid too much.

    The one thing I have said, and will repeat, I don't understand why it seems that SOME people think it's a bad thing that their company makes lots of money. That if the company makes a lot of money, then they deserve more. I think the job performed and the work expected should be the largest emphasis on the pay for the job. Not weather the company is losign money or making money.

    I don't get the last paragraph I quoted from you. "DO i want to see a strike? No But i would like to see this taken care of to avoid lost business..."
    I totally agree with this statement, since talking about an unresolved contract can't help what our customers think. But the next portion of the statement.
    "..and sometimes you have to get ugly to protect what you have. And shutting down all of our airports this close to Xmas would force ups's hand to "
    If you want to push our customers away, then this is a great way to do it. Let me ask you something, and before you answer stop for two minutes and think about it.

    You are the owner or leader of a company that depends on air service.
    If you use UPS, and find out their mechanics go on strike, even though currently they pay nothing into their benefits and they make what they do and are the highest paid in their field and during this difficult economy they strike. And this strike seriously financially impacts your company. After it's all over, would you continue to use UPS???

    If the answer is Yes, why?
  19. airbusfxr

    airbusfxr New Member

    Been there, you job requires no education or skill. Pilots, mechanics, and drivers all have skills that most management dont. Managers are people that couldnt make it at driving, mechanicing, piloting, sorting, etc etc. We have skills that UPS need to have an efficient operation that provides our customers a valuable service commitment. Sitting behind a desk surfing the internet for tee times and jacking with workers on a chat board is someone the company can cut pay for, not the people that make it happen.
  20. upssalesguy

    upssalesguy UPS Defender

    i am so pissed at your last post airbus.

    you think some of us are in management because we couldnt make it as sorters, loaders, and drivers? how about some of us have career aspirations to make this the best company it can be? who came up with the plan for worldport or to expand service? the teamsters? give me a break.

    you jerk. you think we surf the internet all day? you think you are the only people that work? this company would fold without managment.

    gawd some of you need to take off your union colored glasses and realize we ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. i'd love to educate you sometime.

    and FYI for you, in sales, I took a 30% paycut because of the volume being down...i think you still got your raise this year. damn you make me so mad.