Just wondering what everyone thinks of what happened with me and what it says about our union. I'm a nine year part-time preloader and Saturday Air Driver with 9 Seasonal Periods under belt and 6 years of driving on Saturdays. Well after seasonal period ended in August 2011 the company drove me September 9th, and 30th of 2011 outside of the seasonal period. Article 16 in our Teamsters Central Region and UPS Supplemental Agreement to the National Master UPS Agreements states the following " employees worked after Labor Day shall have their time worked prior to Labor Day count toward acquisition of seniority as provided for elsewhere in this agreement. However their seniority dates shall be the first day worked after Labor Day". So my union reps and stewards backed me and actually approached me to file. So we filed grievance on both of those days I drove outside of seasonal period and we asked that I be made a full-time driver as the contract states. Well it gets deadlocked at local greviance panel at my center, then it goes to the state panel in Louisville, KY well it gets deadlocked there, that was in the middle of November. Now its gets dragged out finally to this past February 1, 2012 all the way to Chicago, IL at the National JAC Special Committee. I was told I need to appear in person cause it will look better I purchase round trip plane ticket, caught cab from airport to hotel where the meeting was held to meet my union rep who was already up there from the meeting actually starting on January 31st. My hearing comes up I go in face a 6 team panel of 3 COMPANY MEN and 3 IBT (UNION) MEN. My union rep presents his case the company presents theirs and we walk out of room come back ten minutes later with decison made and my grievance was denied. Out of the 3 IBT Union members voting two of them voted for the company and one voted for me, I guess to totally not make me hate my union. But one of the IBT guys came out to talk to me and my union rep after it was over and said that the language in the contract stated like that was never meant to create full-time positions . But when you read the language in the contract it says you will be full-time and that is how my union interperted obviously our he wouldn't have backed my greviance thru three greviance panels only to lose. So they gave me a ride back to airport and i flew back home after of course several stiff double bourbons and cokes at airport bar, trust me it was a crappy plane ride home. But ultimately I haven't posted alot to this website but I read often and I wanted to get everyones experience on these matters or expertise and find out what everyone thinks about it. Did I get screwed ? Did I not get screwed? I could give more details if asked. Laters!!!
Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you think
- Thread starter bsbmc
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kingOFchester
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
That BLOWS. We have issues just like this in my center but the union does NOTHING. There is more then just our wages in the contract, but sometimes I feel like the union is there to just get us $'s.
Side note, It makes for a much better (easier) read if you add paragraphs to your post.
That BLOWS. We have issues just like this in my center but the union does NOTHING. There is more then just our wages in the contract, but sometimes I feel like the union is there to just get us $'s.
Side note, It makes for a much better (easier) read if you add paragraphs to your post.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
the "acquisition" of seniority to become a full time driver over here is you have to work 30 days within a 90 day window doing full time driving work. Am I missing something?
But I completely agree that "if" that contract language dictates you should become full-time, it should be honored as the contract is written word-for-word, no B.S. excuses
the "acquisition" of seniority to become a full time driver over here is you have to work 30 days within a 90 day window doing full time driving work. Am I missing something?
But I completely agree that "if" that contract language dictates you should become full-time, it should be honored as the contract is written word-for-word, no B.S. excuses
QKRSTKR
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
Did you work as a seasonal full-time package car driver during the summer? That's what I don't understand. U said preload, Sat. air , and 9 seasonal periods. I know we all call things differently. Is that what u meant?
Did you work as a seasonal full-time package car driver during the summer? That's what I don't understand. U said preload, Sat. air , and 9 seasonal periods. I know we all call things differently. Is that what u meant?
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
As Brown trousers stated, in the CRT Supplement if you worked as a full time driver 30 days in a 90 day period, seniority is attained. Working in Sept allows you to go back in the summer free period and count those days. It also adds to days worked in Oct. Do the math both ways. I presume the Panel found something didn't fit in your case. Are you in L89?
As Brown trousers stated, in the CRT Supplement if you worked as a full time driver 30 days in a 90 day period, seniority is attained. Working in Sept allows you to go back in the summer free period and count those days. It also adds to days worked in Oct. Do the math both ways. I presume the Panel found something didn't fit in your case. Are you in L89?
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
Yes i'm in L89 and i worked nearly everyday in june, july, and august except for a random monday or a light volume day, so i most certainly had worked atleast 30 days in a 90 day period before they drove me those two days in september outside of the seasonal period. once whatever panel makes a approved or in my case a denied decison the greviance is over no appeal evidently. the company's argument in the hearing was that they had to drive me those two days because they had alot of call-ins and people out on injuries or disability. in my area it is damn near impossible to get quailfied anymore cause of they can use the single day vacation coverage drivers to get them thru till the seasonal period begins which in my area is may 1st till august 31st and october 1st thru december 31st and the last two years our union and the company has agreed to extend the peak seasonal period a few weeks in to january so those days don't count either. how is the growth or non-growth in hiring full time package car drivers in other brown cafe members centers and hubs?
Yes i'm in L89 and i worked nearly everyday in june, july, and august except for a random monday or a light volume day, so i most certainly had worked atleast 30 days in a 90 day period before they drove me those two days in september outside of the seasonal period. once whatever panel makes a approved or in my case a denied decison the greviance is over no appeal evidently. the company's argument in the hearing was that they had to drive me those two days because they had alot of call-ins and people out on injuries or disability. in my area it is damn near impossible to get quailfied anymore cause of they can use the single day vacation coverage drivers to get them thru till the seasonal period begins which in my area is may 1st till august 31st and october 1st thru december 31st and the last two years our union and the company has agreed to extend the peak seasonal period a few weeks in to january so those days don't count either. how is the growth or non-growth in hiring full time package car drivers in other brown cafe members centers and hubs?
raceanoncr
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
That's the key, here, it seems. Did you EVER work full time? That is, was all your driving/seasonal periods, etc., considered full time?
If not, then you don't automatically gain full time status. Just because you work past free period doesn't mean you gain full time position. If you were new P/Ter, you would merely start gaining company seniority.
Maybe we're missing something here that you left out. If so, please clarify.
That's the key, here, it seems. Did you EVER work full time? That is, was all your driving/seasonal periods, etc., considered full time?
If not, then you don't automatically gain full time status. Just because you work past free period doesn't mean you gain full time position. If you were new P/Ter, you would merely start gaining company seniority.
Maybe we're missing something here that you left out. If so, please clarify.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
Article 16 Central Region Supplemental Agreement:
The Employer shall have the right to hire vacation replacements. Vacation replacements hired in May, June, July and August shall not gain seniority unless they are worked after Labor Day. Employees worked after Labor Day shall have their time worked prior to Labor Day count toward acquisition of seniority as provided for elsewhere in this Agreement. However, their seniority dates shall be the first (1st) day worked after Labor Day. If the Employer recalls these employees it must continue to comply with the part-time six-for-one ratio as provided for elsewhere in this Agreement. Part-time employees may work as full-time vacation replacements under the terms of this provision and still retain their seniority as part-time employees. The Employer shall notify the Union of any employees hired as vacation replacements and have the employee sign a vacation replacement form.
HE GOT SCREWED!!!!
The Employer shall have the right to hire vacation replacements. Vacation replacements hired in May, June, July and August shall not gain seniority unless they are worked after Labor Day. Employees worked after Labor Day shall have their time worked prior to Labor Day count toward acquisition of seniority as provided for elsewhere in this Agreement. However, their seniority dates shall be the first (1st) day worked after Labor Day. If the Employer recalls these employees it must continue to comply with the part-time six-for-one ratio as provided for elsewhere in this Agreement. Part-time employees may work as full-time vacation replacements under the terms of this provision and still retain their seniority as part-time employees. The Employer shall notify the Union of any employees hired as vacation replacements and have the employee sign a vacation replacement form.
HE GOT SCREWED!!!!
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
I would get a lawyer and sue, as well as file charges on the union with the NLRB.
The language is clear!
I would get a lawyer and sue, as well as file charges on the union with the NLRB.
The language is clear!
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
There is an appeal process, but I believe it only applies to Nation Master Contract language.
There is an appeal process, but I believe it only applies to Nation Master Contract language.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
Really....
-Bug-
Really....
-Bug-
QKRSTKR
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
It's too bad this has happened. I really can't believe this made it to JAC. It's sad that your BA and the Labor manager couldn't get this solved at the local level. If this is all true now UPS can do this to every seasonal driver and not give them senority. Your hub must really not need the full-time drivers right now. Our center just had 2 permanent bids go up for package car drivers.
I will throw this in as well. With the 22.3 jobs in place which are full time jobs, those guys don't have the option to drive seasonal. So if the company does make a mistake and give you full-time senority for working 2 days outside the free period, all those full timer 's in combo jobs would have a greivance for not bidding the vacancy. They would have a crack at it before part-timer. Most all our recent openings have been filled by 22.3 full time employees.
It's too bad this has happened. I really can't believe this made it to JAC. It's sad that your BA and the Labor manager couldn't get this solved at the local level. If this is all true now UPS can do this to every seasonal driver and not give them senority. Your hub must really not need the full-time drivers right now. Our center just had 2 permanent bids go up for package car drivers.
I will throw this in as well. With the 22.3 jobs in place which are full time jobs, those guys don't have the option to drive seasonal. So if the company does make a mistake and give you full-time senority for working 2 days outside the free period, all those full timer 's in combo jobs would have a greivance for not bidding the vacancy. They would have a crack at it before part-timer. Most all our recent openings have been filled by 22.3 full time employees.
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
well i greatly appreciate everyone's input on this matter. i truly believed that after nearly nine years i would have been able to begin the other part of my career at this company but i was denied and the wait continues.
well i greatly appreciate everyone's input on this matter. i truly believed that after nearly nine years i would have been able to begin the other part of my career at this company but i was denied and the wait continues.
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
NLRB ?? What is that and were do i find them ?
NLRB ?? What is that and were do i find them ?
Cementups
Box Monkey
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
https://www.nlrb.gov/
https://www.nlrb.gov/
whiskers
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
National labor relations board www.nlrb.gov
National labor relations board www.nlrb.gov
InsideUPS
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
First, congratulations for being the type of person to fight for what you believe in. There are far too few people like you in the world today. Most are apathetic and simply let "life" consume them without opposition.
Second, you do have other alternatives. If you truly believe you have a solid case and you feel that the Union did not represent you properly, you can seek the advice of a Labor Law attorney. You basically would bring a lawsuit against the Union. Obviously this is an extreme measure which deserves careful consideration but nonetheless is a viable alternative.
Fighting Big Brown is no easy task however it can be done. One thing to keep in mind through this is that UPS and the IBT are just lifeless entities which consist of many individuals. Don't get angry at either UPS or the Union as each entity is made up of both good and bad people. Although I've worked for UPS 34 years now and have encountered many people and grievance outcomes I did not like, I never hated UPS or the Union. Getting angry and being upset is very draining and dangerous to your health.
FYI, I agree with another individual poster here that you most likely were fighting for a position.....one that may or may NOT have been filled by yourself. Even if you would have won your grievance.....the job would normally go up for bid. I have seen many times where a grievance was filed and won by one individual only to benefit an entirely different person.
First, congratulations for being the type of person to fight for what you believe in. There are far too few people like you in the world today. Most are apathetic and simply let "life" consume them without opposition.
Second, you do have other alternatives. If you truly believe you have a solid case and you feel that the Union did not represent you properly, you can seek the advice of a Labor Law attorney. You basically would bring a lawsuit against the Union. Obviously this is an extreme measure which deserves careful consideration but nonetheless is a viable alternative.
Fighting Big Brown is no easy task however it can be done. One thing to keep in mind through this is that UPS and the IBT are just lifeless entities which consist of many individuals. Don't get angry at either UPS or the Union as each entity is made up of both good and bad people. Although I've worked for UPS 34 years now and have encountered many people and grievance outcomes I did not like, I never hated UPS or the Union. Getting angry and being upset is very draining and dangerous to your health.
FYI, I agree with another individual poster here that you most likely were fighting for a position.....one that may or may NOT have been filled by yourself. Even if you would have won your grievance.....the job would normally go up for bid. I have seen many times where a grievance was filed and won by one individual only to benefit an entirely different person.
rocket man
Well-Known Member
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
thats bs turn in your card
Re: Lost grievance hearing at National JAC Special Committee in Chicago What do you t
very interesting site thanks for the relaying the information to me
very interesting site thanks for the relaying the information to me
