Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work law.

[brett636]

SEIU picking pockets of families of disabled in Michigan Hot Air

So lets say you have a disabled child and you live in Michigan, and you have to spend a significant amount of time caring for your disabled child because they are totally or completely incapable of taking care of themselves. You receive payments from the state's medicaid program to help cover the costs and time you spend to care for your disabled child. In the state of Michigan those disability payments qualify you now as a state employee, and as such make your disability payments subject to having union dues taken out from said payments by the SEUI. This is what you get when public employee unions run amok. The taxpayer pays the government which go to the government employees and their unions who in turn use that money to buy politicians to give them more of the taxpayer's money. Here we have the union basically becoming a direct parasite on the taxpayers themselves by attaching its union dues requirements to people who are just caring for their own disabled child. This really makes the case for why we need to disband all public unions in this country as they have become the parasite on the taxpayers just as the found fathers of the labor union movement predicted they would be. Its not often I say this but I stand with FDR and George Meany, former president of the AFL-CIO, that public employee unions simply should not exist.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

slimy, vile attempt at trolling. Unless absurdity, I am assuming this is a troll thread.

 

[trplnkl]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I wouldn't support a law disabling the unions but I would support a national right to work law, IF it was deemed constitutional. I've always been pretty big on the States rights vs. national . I do not believe that anyone should HAVE to join a union in order to get a job.

In the debates on government vs unions and unions vs corporations, people tend to forget that unions are in fact big business.

 

[brett636]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

slimy, vile attempt at trolling. Unless absurdity, I am assuming this is a troll thread.

Hardly, this is an informative thread on the despicable actions of public sector employee unions and why they should not exist. Do you agree that the SEIU should be picking the pockets of families with disabled children? Its not like they don't already have enough hardships but to have the unions throw another one on top of their already difficult circumstances makes them a parasite rather than the helping hand that unions are supposed to be.

 

[brett636]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I wouldn't support a law disabling the unions but I would support a national right to work law, IF it was deemed constitutional. I've always been pretty big on the States rights vs. national . I do not believe that anyone should HAVE to join a union in order to get a job.

In the debates on government vs unions and unions vs corporations, people tend to forget that unions are in fact big business.

I am not referring to private sector unions here, only public sector unions who simply are a funnel for taxpayer money into the campaigns of the politicians who support them. Some of the most pro union leaders in our nations history believed that government employees should not have the right to unionize, and I agree with that sentiment.

 

[trplnkl]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

slimy, vile attempt at trolling. Unless absurdity, I am assuming this is a troll thread.

If I were you, which I clearly am not, would totally avoid this thread in the future.

 

[trplnkl]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I am not referring to private sector unions here, only public sector unions who simply are a funnel for taxpayer money into the campaigns of the politicians who support them. Some of the most pro union leaders in our nations history believed that government employees should not have the right to unionize, and I agree with that sentiment.

I think it's been obvious that I am not exactly pro union specially when we are taking about public as opposed to private. However, public employees are citizens that deserve the same protections afforded to private sector employees through the unions. Mistreatment of an emploee is wrong, regardless of the employer.

 

[brett636]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I think it's been obvious that I am not exactly pro union specially when we are taking about public as opposed to private. However, public employees are citizens that deserve the same protections afforded to private sector employees through the unions. Mistreatment of an emploee is wrong, regardless of the employer.

Who is going to take a stand against mis-treatment of the taxpayer?

 

[wkmac]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I would oppose any law period whether from the perspective of labor or employer that's purpose is to effect the terms and conditions of employment. IMO, the very reason labor is so weak is that they gave up their power to the State in exchange for labor law and rules written in reality for the benefit of the industrial employers to begin with. Had labor held on to it's power of the at-will strike, labor would be far more powerful and we lost that in the false exchange that under regulated strike conditions, the employer was prohibited from terminating the strikers. Again, a gross violation and intervention into the employer/employee arrangement that caused consequences later.

Both the at-will strike and freedom to terminate are market mechanisms which can also act as stabilizers when market actions become imbalanced. Removing risks in the marketplace only lead to more imbalance which also result in skewing the marketplace even worse. Minimum wage, maximum wage and other interventions work in the same negative effect. Abolishing the federal Dept. of Labor and federal labor law would in fact unleash the power of labor rather then under the current regime of keeping it bottled up!

 

[wkmac]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Who is going to take a stand against mis-treatment of the taxpayer?

Being a supporter of Cain and his revenue neutral tax plan, I thought you liked and enjoyed being the victim of sadomasochism!

 

[brett636]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Being a supporter of Cain and his revenue neutral tax plan, I thought you liked and enjoyed being the victim of sadomasochism!

This is not the Herman Cain thread. If you wish to make a comment relating to Herman Cain please go into the thread labeled "Herman Cain" and make it there. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[wkmac]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

This is not the Herman Cain thread. If you wish to make a comment relating to Herman Cain please go into the thread labeled "Herman Cain" and make it there. Thank you for your cooperation.

Truth hurts eh!

 

[brett636]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Truth hurts eh!

My response was not whether there was truth in your comment or not, and I will contend that there was no truth contained in it. I was directly responding to the fact that this thread's title does not contain, nor does it infer reference to Herman Cain and his brilliant 999 tax plan. You need to stick to the topic at hand or discontinue participation in this thread. Thanks!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

I would oppose any law period whether from the perspective of labor or employer that's purpose is to effect the terms and conditions of employment. IMO, the very reason labor is so weak is that they gave up their power to the State in exchange for labor law and rules written in reality for the benefit of the industrial employers to begin with. Had labor held on to it's power of the at-will strike, labor would be far more powerful and we lost that in the false exchange that under regulated strike conditions, the employer was prohibited from terminating the strikers. Again, a gross violation and intervention into the employer/employee arrangement that caused consequences later.

Both the at-will strike and freedom to terminate are market mechanisms which can also act as stabilizers when market actions become imbalanced. Removing risks in the marketplace only lead to more imbalance which also result in skewing the marketplace even worse. Minimum wage, maximum wage and other interventions work in the same negative effect. Abolishing the federal Dept. of Labor and federal labor law would in fact unleash the power of labor rather then under the current regime of keeping it bottled up!

Absolutely. We've had this talk before (I think trp was in on it as well). I do believe that a freedom of choice with RTW laws is very acceptable, but as I always caveat, ONLY within the restrictions that labor currently has and the power the state and corporations hold.

the Taft-Hartley act is a pile of garbage.

 

[trplnkl]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Who is going to take a stand against mis-treatment of the taxpayer?

That's a good point, but why can't both be protected?

 

[MrFedEx]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

SEIU picking pockets of families of disabled in Michigan � Hot Air

So lets say you have a disabled child and you live in Michigan, and you have to spend a significant amount of time caring for your disabled child because they are totally or completely incapable of taking care of themselves. You receive payments from the state's medicaid program to help cover the costs and time you spend to care for your disabled child. In the state of Michigan those disability payments qualify you now as a state employee, and as such make your disability payments subject to having union dues taken out from said payments by the SEUI. This is what you get when public employee unions run amok. The taxpayer pays the government which go to the government employees and their unions who in turn use that money to buy politicians to give them more of the taxpayer's money. Here we have the union basically becoming a direct parasite on the taxpayers themselves by attaching its union dues requirements to people who are just caring for their own disabled child. This really makes the case for why we need to disband all public unions in this country as they have become the parasite on the taxpayers just as the found fathers of the labor union movement predicted they would be. Its not often I say this but I stand with FDR and George Meany, former president of the AFL-CIO, that public employee unions simply should not exist.

Are you a UPS Teamster? If so, why would you want to attack public employee unions? Guess what...the private sector unions are also on Republican radar and they are the next target. I hope you like working for $15 per hour with crap benefits, because that's what you get with Right To Work (for less) laws and anti-union companies who will take full advantage. Oh, and your pension? Forget about it.

 

[moreluck]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Are you a UPS Teamster? If so, why would you want to attack public employee unions? Guess what...the private sector unions are also on Republican radar and they are the next target. I hope you like working for $15 per hour with crap benefits, because that's what you get with Right To Work (for less) laws and anti-union companies who will take full advantage. Oh, and your pension? Forget about it.

Regular old taxpayers are sick of seeing the public sector union demands break their states budgets. Everyone is suppose to cut back....why not them too?

 

[brown bomber]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

If anyone is interested, pleases take a look at the defeat of issue 2 (senate bill 5), in the state of Ohio......it was a disaster from day one......In my opinion, with that defeat, it's going to lead to further job losses.......the issue shouldn't have included police, fire , and EMS...into the entire public employee sector........every advertisement featured someone in need or affiliated w/ police or fire depts. however, there are plenty of other public service workers, that are total slackers..and there job is guaranteed..........By the way I voted no on this issue, just to support the safety crews in Ohio

as far as the rest go.....justify your job, tell me why your entitled to a raise every year, and what are you doing that profits your municipality

 

[wkmac]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Absolutely. We've had this talk before (I think trp was in on it as well). I do believe that a freedom of choice with RTW laws is very acceptable, but as I always caveat, ONLY within the restrictions that labor currently has and the power the state and corporations hold.

the Taft-Hartley act is a pile of garbage.

Kevin Carson made a good point about gov't intervention in the employer/employee relationship when he said the following in "Labor Struggle, A Free Market Model",

The predominance of the conventional strike as we know it, as the primary weapon of labor
struggle, is in fact a byproduct of the labor relations regime created under the Wagner Act. The primary
purpose of Wagner, in making the conventional strike the normal method of settling labor disputes, was
to create stability and predictability in the workplace in between strikes, and thereby secure
management's control of production.
And making strikes the only normal form of labor action made them less effective when they were
used. In the system of labor relations extant before Wagner, strikes were only one part of the total
range of available tactics. Unionism, and the methods it normally employed, was less about strikes or
excluding non-union workers from the workplace than about what workers did inside the workplace to
strengthen their bargaining power against the boss. Although what we would call conventional strikes
were sometimes used, it was at least as common to engage in labor struggle of the sort the Industrial
Workers of the World (Wobblies) call “direct action on the job.”
The Knights of Labor, in their day the most successful American labor union that had so far existed,
downplayed the use of strikes against particular employers. Their efforts focused mainly on organizing
producer cooperatives, boycotting offending employers, and engaging in public information
campaigns.3 Of course it was quite common, given the Knights' status as dominant labor federation, for
workers to establish a K. of L. local as a prelude to going on strike. But this was not the strategic focus
of the union as envisioned by Grand Master Workman Clarence Powderly.
Where conventional strikes were used, they were much more effective without the strictures later
imposed by Taft-Hartley. The great CIO organizing strikes of the early '30s were planned the way a
general staff might plan a military campaign. They achieved strategic depth by organizing sympathy
and boycott strikes all the way up and down the production chain, from raw material suppliers to retail
outlets, as well as by teamsters who refused to carry scab cargo.

Even more on the subject at "The Wobblies and Free Market Labor Struggle"

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: Making the case to disband ALL public unions and enact a national right to work l

Kevin Carson made a good point about gov't intervention in the employer/employee relationship when he said the following in "Labor Struggle, A Free Market Model",



Even more on the subject at "The Wobblies and Free Market Labor Struggle"

That first art "labor struggle" is one of my favorites.