Mandatory not so mandatory?

shalang

Well-Known Member
Western Region
Southwest Sort Rider

Where does it say or imply that a 6th or 7th workday can be forced? I have worked here for years so we all "know" its top seniority voluntary and then forced bottom up due to all those skeleton crews we would run after Thanksgiving. Seen it for drivers but never sort unless I'm blind.

Also, many people are under the assumption that they can force the entire shift to come in and that since everyone has to come im theres no violation.

Thoughts?
 

no more than 9

"Livin' the Dream"
Western Region
Southwest Sort Rider

Where does it say or imply that a 6th or 7th workday can be forced? I have worked here for years so we all "know" its top seniority voluntary and then forced bottom up due to all those skeleton crews we would run after Thanksgiving. Seen it for drivers but never sort unless I'm blind.

Also, many people are under the assumption that they can force the entire shift to come in and that since everyone has to come im theres no violation.

Thoughts?
They can not force you to 6 punch, let alone 7 punch. I don’t understand why drivers fall for this.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Western Region
Southwest Sort Rider

Where does it say or imply that a 6th or 7th workday can be forced? I have worked here for years so we all "know" its top seniority voluntary and then forced bottom up due to all those skeleton crews we would run after Thanksgiving. Seen it for drivers but never sort unless I'm blind.

Also, many people are under the assumption that they can force the entire shift to come in and that since everyone has to come im theres no violation.

Thoughts?
Page 69
 

shalang

Well-Known Member
Mind if I answer your question with a question?

Where does it say that a 6th or 7th day can't be forced?

I understand you playing devils advocate but I want to see where, contractually, sort employees are required to come in on a day that us not their scheduled work week. Because regular scheduled work week is 5 days, Monday through Friday or Tuesdat through Saturday (page 213).

The word mandatory gets thrown around but I have yet to see the justification contractually for it.

The problem arises due to different answers from BAs and stewards. Last BA we had had a radically different opinion than our current one.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
I understand you playing devils advocate but I want to see where, contractually, sort employees are required to come in on a day that us not their scheduled work week. Because regular scheduled work week is 5 days, Monday through Friday or Tuesdat through Saturday (page 213).

The word mandatory gets thrown around but I have yet to see the justification contractually for it.

The problem arises due to different answers from BAs and stewards. Last BA we had had a radically different opinion than our current one.


I'm trying to point out not everything is specifically laid out in the contract.

Let's play this out a little.

You're told you're being forced in for a 6th day punch and the company is following seniority.

You don't show or call out.

Company writes you up for a NCNS.

You continue to do it and they fire you after the 3rd weekend in a row.

Now you file a grievance for wrongful termination. Per our contract the company doesn't have to have a local meeting for 10 days.

Let's say they stand strong and send you to the next level. Now you're looking at another 20 days on top of that 10.

My point is that this is all up for interpretation and I'd rather people call out "sick" and deal with attendance issues (which are easy to fight right now with covid19) than not call because the contract doesn't specifically say they can't be forced.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Same boat here. Always hear the threat of write ups but never seen it actually materialize.

It all depends on the situation. During peak the company can't take the chance of disciplining the whole building. So they just take what they can get.

Depending on your building right now... like mine only 10 people are being forced in. Much easier to discipline 10 instead of 100.
 

Jkloc420

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to point out not everything is specifically laid out in the contract.

Let's play this out a little.

You're told you're being forced in for a 6th day punch and the company is following seniority.

You don't show or call out.

Company writes you up for a NCNS.

You continue to do it and they fire you after the 3rd weekend in a row.

Now you file a grievance for wrongful termination. Per our contract the company doesn't have to have a local meeting for 10 days.

Let's say they stand strong and send you to the next level. Now you're looking at another 20 days on top of that 10.

My point is that this is all up for interpretation and I'd rather people call out "sick" and deal with attendance issues (which are easy to fight right now with covid19) than not call because the contract doesn't specifically say they can't be forced.
tell him the truth, it really depends how strong and activer your local is
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
tell him the truth, it really depends how strong and activer your local is

Yes and no. It really depends on the manager. If he wants to push it. He easily could.

Remember technically the company can terminate you after a warning letter. Will it stick... no but you're still not being paid for that amount of time you're out of work. We can all say "oh I'll ask for back pay" but ask your BA or any BA on here how well that usually goes.
 

shalang

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to point out not everything is specifically laid out in the contract.

Let's play this out a little.

You're told you're being forced in for a 6th day punch and the company is following seniority.

You don't show or call out.

Company writes you up for a NCNS.

You continue to do it and they fire you after the 3rd weekend in a row.

Now you file a grievance for wrongful termination. Per our contract the company doesn't have to have a local meeting for 10 days.

Let's say they stand strong and send you to the next level. Now you're looking at another 20 days on top of that 10.

My point is that this is all up for interpretation and I'd rather people call out "sick" and deal with attendance issues (which are easy to fight right now with covid19) than not call because the contract doesn't specifically say they can't be forced.

I get that the company can do whatever they want to do. Unless its specifically written in the contract (even if it is in some cases), the company will do what the company wants.

I am also very familiar with the 2 weeks waiting period to sit down with the union. I've told employees this constantly. I've seen guys out of a job for 11 months due to occasions and that never went to arbitration. Just management teaching him a lesson.

I have also told employees that it's better to call out then just do a no call no show, even if it is on a 6th day. More wiggle room to get out of a write up.

If that's the point you're trying to drill I get that. Unfortunately though the stewards and BAs say different things and under different reasonings. Just wanted some input from you educated fellows.

Thanks
 

shalang

Well-Known Member
Yes and no. It really depends on the manager. If he wants to push it. He easily could.

Remember technically the company can terminate you after a warning letter. Will it stick... no but you're still not being paid for that amount of time you're out of work. We can all say "oh I'll ask for back pay" but ask your BA or any BA on here how well that usually goes.

In our area, there was an LOA signed stating there has to be verbal, warning, suspension and then termination. It was always past practice but it wasnt until recently they wrote an LOA.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
So I guess after everything that has been said. What are you looking for @shalang?

Are you looking for a definitive answer that tells you one way or the other because I can tell you right now it doesn't exist.

Please don't take what I say the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a A hole.
 

shalang

Well-Known Member
So I guess after everything that has been said. What are you looking for @shalang?

Are you looking for a definitive answer that tells you one way or the other because I can tell you right now it doesn't exist.

Please don't take what I say the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a A hole.

Oh no, I dont. Even if it came off that way, no need to get heated. I take things light hearted.

Just wanted to see peoples opinions on the matter. Yours seems to be one of looking at it from both sides, which I personally do. Unfortunately though when a BA tells you one thing and then another BA tells you different, puts you in a bind when it comes to the bargaining unit employees.

That also leads to whether the grievances will be fought for or disregarded unfortunately. I'm pretty surebm you're well aware of this. In fact, I've had to argue with the BAs because of that
 
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