New DOT hour of service question?

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
How much do you think the company will enforce taking a half hour break before hour 8? Do you think it will be with the same earnestness that they try to keep drivers under 12 (at least in my hub, since you get only one 14 hr day per week), or especially the 60-hr rule?

I remember reading how on the west coast drivers are actually locked out of their boards for an hour, and i think FedEx Express drivers have something similar to them. Do you think more centers are going to have their DIAD programs update to comply with this? Also what kind of fines will the company face? Will drivers also get hit with the fine?
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Maybe initially more drivers will be needed as drivers learn to adjust their schedules to accomodate the lunch; after a couple weeks, though, it will probably go back to normal, for the most part. However, someone(s)somewhere always have a bad day that used to be accomodated by "taking lunch" at end of day, if at all, so hopefully a couple new driver positions will be created, albeit with a late start. BTW, how does this affect management being able to have drivers get paid to work through lunch (in my local we get one 10 min nreak
, so cannot combine two breaks to comply with the law)?
 

feeder

Central Pa Member
My start time is at 5pm. Right now, I start my meal period at 12:45am(15 minutes from my 8th hour). Would I be in violation?
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
How much do you think the company will enforce taking a half hour break before hour 8? Do you think it will be with the same earnestness that they try to keep drivers under 12 (at least in my hub, since you get only one 14 hr day per week), or especially the 60-hr rule?

I remember reading how on the west coast drivers are actually locked out of their boards for an hour, and i think FedEx Express drivers have something similar to them. Do you think more centers are going to have their DIAD programs update to comply with this? Also what kind of fines will the company face? Will drivers also get hit with the fine?
Right off the bat if the new TA gets ratified our building will be using the new language about stewards filing grievances for safety issues. Keep filing if they are forcing too much work down people's throats to take our hour lunch between 4-5 hour. Keep filing. File some more. And a few after that. It will eventually be addressed.
 

UPS Preloader

Well-Known Member
My start time is at 5pm. Right now, I start my meal period at 12:45am(15 minutes from my 8th hour). Would I be in violation?

I believe the answer is no. The way I interpret it, you can work up to 8 hours, but then you have to take a 30 min break.

Rest Breaks
May drive only if 8 hours or less have passed since end of driver’s last off-duty or sleeper berth period of at least 30 minutes. [49 CFR 397.5 mandatory “in attendance” time may be included in break if no other duties performed]
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
My start time is at 5pm. Right now, I start my meal period at 12:45am(15 minutes from my 8th hour). Would I be in violation?

Yes, because the regulation says you may only drive if 8 hours or less have passed since your last rest break of at least 30 minutes. So you would have to start it no later than 00:30. I'm sure there will be an interpretation on just this sort of question soon.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
How much do you think the company will enforce taking a half hour break before hour 8? Do you think it will be with the same earnestness that they try to keep drivers under 12 (at least in my hub, since you get only one 14 hr day per week), or especially the 60-hr rule?

I remember reading how on the west coast drivers are actually locked out of their boards for an hour, and i think FedEx Express drivers have something similar to them. Do you think more centers are going to have their DIAD programs update to comply with this? Also what kind of fines will the company face? Will drivers also get hit with the fine?

It's not up to UPS. It's Federal law. Violations will have consequences.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Maybe initially more drivers will be needed as drivers learn to adjust their schedules to accomodate the lunch; after a couple weeks, though, it will probably go back to normal, for the most part. However, someone(s)somewhere always have a bad day that used to be accomodated by "taking lunch" at end of day, if at all, so hopefully a couple new driver positions will be created, albeit with a late start. BTW, how does this affect management being able to have drivers get paid to work through lunch (in my local we get one 10 min nreak
, so cannot combine two breaks to comply with the law)?

Again, it's not UPS's call. If you work 8 hours, you HAVE to take 30 minutes off-duty time, consecutively, BEFORE the 8 hours is up. So, no more skipping lunches and no more taking lunches at the end of the day.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
It's not up to UPS. It's Federal law. Violations will have consequences.

Technically, it's the law now that drivers must take a lunch, right? Are there penalties for UPS not enforcing the current law? If so, given how many skip their lunches, the threat of enforcement didn't stop it. However, with what Stink said, this time it will be easier to at least get stewards to file grievances, just for finding guys sitting at the air wall "taking their lunch" (as an aside, in our supplement the language is somewhat vague on whether a driver had to take a lunch between 3rd and 5th hour, or even if the driver had to take lunch at all; the company couldn't force him to skip it).

As for my 2nd point, i may have been misunderstood: I am not saying UPS will comply for a couple weeks before going back to old habits, rather I believe that most drivers will be able to adjust their habits within a week or two so as to take half, or even all of their by the 8th hour and still get their work done. For those who struggle, rides may be coming to help improve methods. Excess hours may be high for a few days, but then should go down. There shouldn't be huge demand for new drivers, as wjat really neds to happen is drivers managing their time better (I speak from experience).

However, if there are some real teeth to this new law I believe some later-starting driver jobs may open up as a way to cover behinds, a sort of "contingency".
 

oldngray

nowhere special
You are supposed to take a lunch so take a lunch. Problem solved. If it creates services failures then UPS can add more routes. I can see skipping lunch in an emergency even though you shouldn't but drivers should not be forced to skip lunch to get everything delivered on a regular basis.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Interestingly, I learned about the DOT changes via upsers.com; the changes are supposed to be gone over as a PCM. One highlight, for me, is seeing in print that lunch does not start until the driver is is released from all responsibilty concerning the truck. My dispatch supe had been insisting that the method is "lunch starts as soon as you finish your last start, and will include your drive on locating food". During my initial search to confirm or deny that I couldn't find anything pertinent. Now I am going to print this out and just keep it in my wallet. Also, if I overhear two drivers discussing how they take their lunch, and if my dispatcher's instructions are repeated, I will show them the correct method.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Lunch starts after you are parked and the second you step off the truck. Supervisors may try to tell you differently but that is them trying to steal time from you. You are not allowed to drive a long distance to where you take your lunch and should tie it in with the deliveries on your route though.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
You are supposed to take a lunch so take a lunch. Problem solved. If it creates services failures then UPS can add more routes. I can see skipping lunch in an emergency even though you shouldn't but drivers should not be forced to skip lunch to get everything delivered on a regular basis.

Skipping one's lunch and taking it earlier two separate issues, and the way the supplement is worded "-in general, the two parties. agree in principle, that lunch is to be taken between the 3rd and 5th hour, where practical."

However, this new language makes that moot, however most drivers probably just need to learn to manage time better. Another thing I wonder is how this language affects the provision the company has to pay drivers to work through lunch; will they only be able to pay them for half lunch? (Unfortunately, in our supplement we only get one ten-minute break; I'd use it plus 20 mins of lunch to make that work).
 
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'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Lunch starts after you are parked and the second you step off the truck. Supervisors may try to tell you differently but that is them trying to steal time from you. You are not allowed to drive a long distance to where you take your lunch and should tie it in with the deliveries on your route though.
That's what i have been doing now, taking lunch at places where i am makong deliveries. However, the language "when the driver is released from responsibility from the truck" is for those who might want to take lunch on the truck; eg I often use that time to pour juice mix into bottles of water for my afternoon residential run (the language also points to lunch starting when driver steps off truck as well, i.e. "lunch begins when driver steps off truck OR is released..."
 
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brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
I'm sure if you show 30 minutes of lunch on your board that will be good enough. I don't see the DOT looking thru delivery records to see if you were working thru that 30 minutes or not. Shall be interesting.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Interestingly, I learned about the DOT changes via upsers.com; the changes are supposed to be gone over as a PCM. One highlight, for me, is seeing in print that lunch does not start until the driver is is released from all responsibilty concerning the truck. My dispatch supe had been insisting that the method is "lunch starts as soon as you finish your last start, and will include your drive on locating food". During my initial search to confirm or deny that I couldn't find anything pertinent. Now I am going to print this out and just keep it in my wallet. Also, if I overhear two drivers discussing how they take their lunch, and if my dispatcher's instructions are repeated, I will show them the correct method.

Your sup is full of crap. Just ask him, "If I'm on lunch, which means I'm off the clock, are you instructing me to drive the UPS vehicle while being off duty? I'll need you to put that in writing, on UPS letterhead, signed by the center manager and the labor manager."

Case closed.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
I'm sure if you show 30 minutes of lunch on your board that will be good enough. I don't see the DOT looking thru delivery records to see if you were working thru that 30 minutes or not. Shall be interesting.

You would be mistaken in assuming that. The driver time cards are technically legal documents, and if the DOT wants to see them, see them they will. This should put package car in the same boat as feeeders as far as DOT rules is concerned. Ask any feeder driver here if he or she messes around with violating DOT hours of service.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
You would be mistaken in assuming that. The driver time cards are technically legal documents, and if the DOT wants to see them, see them they will. This should put package car in the same boat as feeeders as far as DOT rules is concerned. Ask any feeder driver here if he or she messes around with violating DOT hours of service.

Our DIAD is our time card so, as BM said, all we would have to do is put 30 minutes in to the DIAD; now, if DOT asks for delivery records......
 
Our DIAD is our time card so, as BM said, all we would have to do is put 30 minutes in to the DIAD; now, if DOT asks for delivery records......

If they feel like digging and see work being performed during a lunch period the DOT will hold a driver responsible as well as the company.
 
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