New GPS Time Study: What they are not telling you

[over9five]

ha, this thread is like a dog chasing its tail around, and around and around......

<sigh> As are so many others....


+1

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Also, when the study is done, how long afterwards until the "sit down with the driver" meeting to describe specific points/differences on their routes? The obvious necessity for this is the variety of buildings/stairs/elevators, etc.

Once that meeting takes place, how long until the new time study is implemented? Or is it implemented pending the info meeting with the driver?

Thanks for your candor, P-man. I truly appreciate your willingness to share this information.

They just change the time study and it's business as usual.

sd

Anyone else can disagree, but my guess is there is no "sit down with the driver".

Your guess was right.

I don't like your comparison.

Like Bubblehead said there are too many variables that go into a driver's day to assess it by a narrow metric like SPORH.

Rather than comparing it to whether oxygen will burn, it is more like blindly saying a bag of trash will burn.

The contents of a bag of trash can vary.

Just because you observed a bag of trash burning three days in a row doesn't mean that I will agree with you that the next day's trash will also burn in the same way.

I have a fair allowance, but as a driver I understand the frustration that other drivers feel over being held to a standard that can be compromised in so many ways.

+1

I believe the different aspects of the allowance should be re calculated, ie, signature stops, cod packages, selection...etc. What year were these different aspects of our jobs studied and assigned a time value...1940?? Everybody knows customers today are not the sane as they were 20, 30 or 40 years ago. It use to be that customers would drop EVERYTHING and give their drivers their full attention. Now you can walk up to someone on the phone, stick the diad 1 inch from their face and they wont sign the damn board and make you wait. How about selection, back in the day before blown out cars and 150 lb pkgs, ups WAS a small parcel shipper, why should a driver be penalized for having bulk or having trouble finding a few pkgs...lets get these different aspects of the job in 2010 ups terms.....ok I better wake up now that was a nice dream

That was starting to be like a good movie.

 

[hellfire]

I believe the different aspects of the allowance should be re calculated, ie, signature stops, cod packages, selection...etc. What year were these different aspects of our jobs studied and assigned a time value...1940?? Everybody knows customers today are not the sane as they were 20, 30 or 40 years ago. It use to be that customers would drop EVERYTHING and give their drivers their full attention. Now you can walk up to someone on the phone, stick the diad 1 inch from their face and they wont sign the damn board and make you wait. How about selection, back in the day before blown out cars and 150 lb pkgs, ups WAS a small parcel shipper, why should a driver be penalized for having bulk or having trouble finding a few pkgs...lets get these different aspects of the job in 2010 ups terms.....ok I better wake up now that was a nice dream

you know,, this is very true,,, good post

 

[brownrod]

Also, when the study is done, how long afterwards until the "sit down with the driver" meeting to describe specific points/differences on their routes? The obvious necessity for this is the variety of buildings/stairs/elevators, etc.

Once that meeting takes place, how long until the new time study is implemented? Or is it implemented pending the info meeting with the driver?

Thanks for your candor, P-man. I truly appreciate your willingness to share this information.

Meeting with a driver? LOL. What makes you think they would do something like that.
One day you are on the old time studies. Next day you have new ones. They don't explain anything.

 

[just interested]

Meeting with a driver? LOL. What makes you think they would do something like that.
One day you are on the old time studies. Next day you have new ones. They don't explain anything.

Well.....I thought that because the stats guy that came from corporate said so....and our supervisors are also wondering when the promised meetings would take place.

It appears that our routes have all gained time and a few people who were not bonusing before are now - most routes breathing a little easier now, but when I ask if we've implemented the new time study, they say "no".

So....does corporate implement the new time study without management knowing? Is it possible that the route planner has new numbers to go by, but doesn't realize the time study has been put in place?

 

[pretzel_man]

P-Man - What percentage of the facilities across the USA have completed the implementation of the new time studies? OF these, what percentage show an overall gain in time?

I think they will finish up in about a year. I do not know this for sure. I'm just remembering (maybe incorrectly) the old schedule they told me.

I do not know the % of drivers / centers that gained time. I know that from what Corporate told me and from my personal observations that the average center gained time. From the ones I saw, I'd say about 65% to 70% of centers gained time. Average about 2 tenths. Again, this is a personal observation without other facts to back it up.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Well.....I thought that because the stats guy that came from corporate said so....and our supervisors are also wondering when the promised meetings would take place.

It appears that our routes have all gained time and a few people who were not bonusing before are now - most routes breathing a little easier now, but when I ask if we've implemented the new time study, they say "no".

So....does corporate implement the new time study without management knowing? Is it possible that the route planner has new numbers to go by, but doesn't realize the time study has been put in place?

Corporate does not implement the time study. Its done locally in the district. As I recall, Corporate said that they want to review any centers that gained or lost a lot of time. Other than that, its all in the district.

Is it possible that the studies got implemented without the planner knowing? Its possible. I have not seen that happen though. The district review and implementation process has been there for many, many years. Implementing allowances without operator reviews has always been a no-no.

P-Man

 

[brownmonster]

I have a question about delivery location on the time study. I believe P-Man said the walk distance is calculated from the truck to the location where pkgs are signed for. I rarely stop complete at the actual delivery point as I punch the last name and complete the stop as I'm walking back (as per methods). Sometimes I stop complete almost back to the truck. Do we have the option of explaining where the actual delivery point is ( many of my stops are front door to the back room) or should I stand at the delivery point until I complete the stop? I just want a fair measurement of what I do. BM

 

[brownrod]

Well.....I thought that because the stats guy that came from corporate said so....and our supervisors are also wondering when the promised meetings would take place.

It appears that our routes have all gained time and a few people who were not bonusing before are now - most routes breathing a little easier now, but when I ask if we've implemented the new time study, they say "no".

So....does corporate implement the new time study without management knowing? Is it possible that the route planner has new numbers to go by, but doesn't realize the time study has been put in place?

That meeting is probably when they ask 5 drivers to stick around after PCM then they talk at them for 30 seconds before sending them on your way.

 

[Bubblehead]

I have a question about delivery location on the time study. I believe P-Man said the walk distance is calculated from the truck to the location where pkgs are signed for. I rarely stop complete at the actual delivery point as I punch the last name and complete the stop as I'm walking back (as per methods). Sometimes I stop complete almost back to the truck. Do we have the option of explaining where the actual delivery point is ( many of my stops are front door to the back room) or should I stand at the delivery point until I complete the stop? I just want a fair measurement of what I do. BM

The only calculation that matters to me is done by the clock.
Don't get sucked into that mess.

Hours worked x my hourly rate = my allowance

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I have a question about delivery location on the time study. I believe P-Man said the walk distance is calculated from the truck to the location where pkgs are signed for. I rarely stop complete at the actual delivery point as I punch the last name and complete the stop as I'm walking back (as per methods). Sometimes I stop complete almost back to the truck. Do we have the option of explaining where the actual delivery point is ( many of my stops are front door to the back room) or should I stand at the delivery point until I complete the stop? I just want a fair measurement of what I do. BM

P-man said in a post on another thread that it doesn't matter where you stop complete the delivery as the program used (Google Earth?) will calculate the distance from the middle of the street to the address in question. I don't recall him talking about whether allowances are made for delivering anywhere other than to the front door.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

P-man said in a post on another thread that it doesn't matter where you stop complete the delivery as the program used (Google Earth?) will calculate the distance from the middle of the street to the address in question. I don't recall him talking about whether allowances are made for delivering anywhere other than to the front door.

I think it was the first post of this thread, and from what I remember, Upstate is right.

 

[code5]

that's exactly right Fracus. A 5' tall 45 yr old 100 lb worker cannot possibly be held to the same standard to a 25 year old 6'2 210 worker.

Dude, I wish you could see me. I think that is total bull (no offence). I'm just that, 5' 100 lb. Been a driver for 16 years. For the most part size has nothing to do with being a UPS driver, but work ethic does. I am strong as a bull, physically fit and work hard every day. I have seen TONS on employees that are physical specimins that are lazy as sin.

Having said that, I'm my own worse enemy at times. I'm pretty much a model employee it pains me to say. I work hard every day, follow all methods, provide great customer service and make sure I never go out light. Problem is I often get taken advantage of and I know it. I never skip my break, but I'm not an overtime freak either and that is the problem. UPS can base you day more on quantity than quality. The doggers look better because they are willing to stay out as long as mgmt wants them too even when they don't accomplish what I do. My biggest downfall is that I want to go home.

Me thinks I'm going to get screwed on my time study (happening next week). I have a bulk run with lots of industrial. As I sweat it out all day trying to find my packages in my mangled mess of a load, ill lose time while a resi run with an employee that can smell the roses either doing long walks or pleasant 10 min. drive between stops will be better off. Should a high physical aspect count for anything?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

The time studies will never be fair nor representative of real-world, so why sweat it?

 

[soberups]

Me thinks I'm going to get screwed on my time study (happening next week). I have a bulk run with lots of industrial. As I sweat it out all day trying to find my packages in my mangled mess of a load, ill lose time while a resi run with an employee that can smell the roses either doing long walks or pleasant 10 min. drive between stops will be better off. Should a high physical aspect count for anything?

The only things in life you can count on are death, taxes, and getting screwed on a time study.

 

[Catatonic]

The only things in life you can count on are death, taxes, and getting screwed on a time study.

I can think of a couple more (at least) and one of them involves you.

 

[Bubblehead]

Dude, I wish you could see me. I think that is total bull (no offence). I'm just that, 5' 100 lb. Been a driver for 16 years. For the most part size has nothing to do with being a UPS driver, but work ethic does. I am strong as a bull, physically fit and work hard every day. I have seen TONS on employees that are physical specimins that are lazy as sin.

Your work ethic may erase the gap between you and a lazy co-worker of larger dimensions, but I don't think you can refute the assertion that if all things were equal the bigger driver is better equipped to out perform you. Reality may very well be that you are doing your body a disservice in the long run. After all you are only a little more than half way to your 30 years.

Having said that, I'm my own worse enemy at times. I'm pretty much a model employee it pains me to say. I work hard every day, follow all methods, provide great customer service and make sure I never go out light. Problem is I often get taken advantage of and I know it. I never skip my break, but I'm not an overtime freak either and that is the problem. UPS can base you day more on quantity than quality. The doggers look better because they are willing to stay out as long as mgmt wants them too even when they don't accomplish what I do. My biggest downfall is that I want to go home.

The first step is acknowleding your problem. When you can embrace the fact that you don't have a set clockout time and plan accordingly, you will be liberated and additionally compensated. Your mind and body will also reep benefits.

Me thinks I'm going to get screwed on my time study (happening next week). I have a bulk run with lots of industrial. As I sweat it out all day trying to find my packages in my mangled mess of a load, ill lose time while a resi run with an employee that can smell the roses either doing long walks or pleasant 10 min. drive between stops will be better off. Should a high physical aspect count for anything?

Time studies are of no concern. They will be what they will be. Treat them like the imaginary measurement that they are. Have you ever considered bidding a different route with your 16 yrs of seniority?

Just a suggestion for an alternate mindset.
It's not to late for a new way of looking at things.

 

[code5]

Just a suggestion for an alternate mindset.
It's not to late for a new way of looking at things.

Bubblehead, i respect and even agree with you quote. Problem is that I'm not sure I want to conform to UPS standards - it simply isn't me. Logically speaking I'm thinking my best course of action is to find a new job actually. Money shouldn't be our only reward for working at UPS. Of course it is the main reason we all work here, but selling your soul for it isn't worth it. I like the feeling of accomplishment and want a more balanced lifestylle than simply punching out just to do it all again tomorrow. I want a life after work in a day, not before. The old 9 to 7p.m. or later is a terrible shift and build out of greed by our employer. Other organizations could follow that guideline for their shifts as well but are simply better to their staff. Its pretty sad that my beef really isn't the workload I assume in a day, its the punchout time that I desire. A well managed 8 hour shift would make the company more money than a inefficient 10 hour shift.

One has to wonder that if UPS looked at other, well balanced approaches it is possible they could make more money. Instead it is fixaded on the money being made now, as well as the approach "It is what it is" and "This is the way it has always been done".

Again, your right, slowing down will do my body good - I know that, for the long run. I'm just not sure that, after the long run i'd look back and think I waisted my life away when I should have taken a different approach years before.

Also, rebidding an on another route is an option, but I like my customers. With the lack of co-worker bonding of sorts, thats where I get my social aspect in my job. I find too many residential deliveries in a day kind of boring.

In fairness, I'm not too worried about the time study though. I almost never get disciplined or told I do a bad job. Quite the opposite, the customers love me and thats important - mgmt and I are not at odds either, except my desire to leave after my 8 hours are up. BTW, my first 15 years was a driver sort and load where I started at 7 and was done anywhere between 5, latest 6 p.m. I admit, I'm having problems with the transition.

 

[code5]

Sorry, I know i'm on a rant here but what the heck! When I'm done at 8 hours I also have my assigned route completed. I'm not asking to leave without being done my route, I very rarely ask for help to complete it either. I always hit my plan and more times than not I scratch. It just pisses me off when I'm required to go help other drivers that go slower knowing that others are there to help them.

That is the system I am presently working in. I can't say I want the old "If you can't beat them, join them" approach.

end of rant!

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Bubblehead, i respect and even agree with you quote. Problem is that I'm not sure I want to conform to UPS standards - it simply isn't me. Logically speaking I'm thinking my best course of action is to find a new job actually. Money shouldn't be our only reward for working at UPS. Of course it is the main reason we all work here, but selling your soul for it isn't worth it. I like the feeling of accomplishment and want a more balanced lifestylle than simply punching out just to do it all again tomorrow. I want a life after work in a day, not before. The old 9 to 7p.m. or later is a terrible shift and build out of greed by our employer. Other organizations could follow that guideline for their shifts as well but are simply better to their staff. Its pretty sad that my beef really isn't the workload I assume in a day, its the punchout time that I desire. A well managed 8 hour shift would make the company more money than a inefficient 10 hour shift.

One has to wonder that if UPS looked at other, well balanced approaches it is possible they could make more money. Instead it is fixaded on the money being made now, as well as the approach "It is what it is" and "This is the way it has always been done".

Again, your right, slowing down will do my body good - I know that, for the long run. I'm just not sure that, after the long run i'd look back and think I waisted my life away when I should have taken a different approach years before.

Also, rebidding an on another route is an option, but I like my customers. With the lack of co-worker bonding of sorts, thats where I get my social aspect in my job. I find too many residential deliveries in a day kind of boring.

In fairness, I'm not too worried about the time study though. I almost never get disciplined or told I do a bad job. Quite the opposite, the customers love me and thats important - mgmt and I are not at odds either, except my desire to leave after my 8 hours are up. BTW, my first 15 years was a driver sort and load where I started at 7 and was done anywhere between 5, latest 6 p.m. I admit, I'm having problems with the transition.

Sorry, I know i'm on a rant here but what the heck! When I'm done at 8 hours I also have my assigned route completed. I'm not asking to leave without being done my route, I very rarely ask for help to complete it either. I always hit my plan and more times than not I scratch. It just pisses me off when I'm required to go help other drivers that go slower knowing that others are there to help them.

That is the system I am presently working in. I can't say I want the old "If you can't beat them, join them" approach.

end of rant!

Your posts say it all, c5. You have made your bed and now you're sleeping in it, the very thing you didn't want to do, but now the "company" has you right where they want you, running your butt off to be done before a certain hour and rethinking your choice of jobs. They will most certainly keep loading you up, since you're proving to them that you'll get it done in order to get home. The fact that you are re-thinking UPS tells that whole story.

Not bidding off of the route because your customers are great? You're letting everyone make decisions for YOU, no wonder why you're feeling the way you do. How about clearing your mind of all of the false information, getting a better sense of who YOU are and what YOU want in life, with a clear head? It sounds like you're re-thinking UPS because you're busting your hump DAILY to get off of the clock, which has proven overwhelming to you. You do know that it doesn't have to be this way, right?