New GPS Time Study: What they are not telling you

[trplnkl]

None of that crap matters anyway, you all get paid by the hour. Read your contract books, it tells you exactly what you make in there!!!

They do have to pay you for every minute you are on the clock, GPS, EDD, Pal, telematics do not change that.

 

[Brownnblue]

Someone is not listening.

Mr "IE is just trying to find new ways to screw you" are you not seeing the folks who are tallking about all the time they are geting back on their allowances through the new gps time studies or are you just obstinately ignoring them?

Can we hear from the folks who are losing time? For that matter, can we hear exactly how the system works, how it is developed, and the hard numbers behind how the allowances are given? Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, don't I have the right as a worker to know this information? And please, don't give me the "you can ask your superiors and they will set up a meeting for you" line as I have been trying for about twenty years with no results.

If this thing is the fair, accurate, bastion of scientific accuracy that you make it out to be, then you should have no problem explaining it. For that matter, if you want drivers to beat the numbers, would it not be a good idea to explain how it works?

 

[pretzel_man]

10 to 15%. That seems pretty significant. That could be up to an hour and a half variance on a 10 hour load.

The 10% to 15% mentioned was not related to the accuracy of the measurement.

However, IE states that their measurement is 95% accurate, 95% of the time. While this seems high, it is still off by up to 1/2 hour in a given day, and higher than that 1 day a month.

Work measurement works well for a center. Poorer for an individual driver, and even poorer for an individual driver for a single day.

P-Man

 

[brownIEman]

Can we hear from the folks who are losing time? For that matter, can we hear exactly how the system works, how it is developed, and the hard numbers behind how the allowances are given? Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, don't I have the right as a worker to know this information? And please, don't give me the "you can ask your superiors and they will set up a meeting for you" line as I have been trying for about twenty years with no results.

If this thing is the fair, accurate, bastion of scientific accuracy that you make it out to be, then you should have no problem explaining it. For that matter, if you want drivers to beat the numbers, would it not be a good idea to explain how it works?

um, who is it exactly that is making it out to be that?

 

[Bubblehead]

The 10% to 15% mentioned was not related to the accuracy of the measurement.

However, IE states that their measurement is 95% accurate, 95% of the time. While this seems high, it is still off by up to 1/2 hour in a given day, and higher than that 1 day a month.

Work measurement works well for a center. Poorer for an individual driver, and even poorer for an individual driver for a single day.

P-Man

So then in the advent of this new technological tool, that requires nobody to get on car, why not use data from multiple days? Wouldn't that give a more accurate representation and provide for a better time study?

 

[Dragon]

Because 95% of the time you pull up at 123 UPS street, park along the curb in front of house, scan package as you walk, stop complete after making the delivery, return to your vehicle, go to your next delivery. 5% of the time you scan the package in the truck, leave DIAD in truck, haul package to house, get back in the truck drive to the next delivery and then stop complete at next stop. GPS is working the whole time, which measurement is correct?

 

[Bubblehead]

So then in the advent of this new technological tool, that requires nobody to get on car, why not use data from multiple days? Wouldn't that give a more accurate representation and provide for a better time study?

Because 95% of the time you pull up at 123 UPS street, park along the curb in front of house, scan package as you walk, stop complete after making the delivery, return to your vehicle, go to your next delivery. 5% of the time you scan the package in the truck, leave DIAD in truck, haul package to house, get back in the truck drive to the next delivery and then stop complete at next stop. GPS is working the whole time, which measurement is correct?

Is this supposed to be an answer to my question?

 

[Jones]

Why not just time you every day instead of relying on a time study that may not be accurate? Then your plan for each day would be generated by what you actually did that day.

 

[pretzel_man]

So then in the advent of this new technological tool, that requires nobody to get on car, why not use data from multiple days? Wouldn't that give a more accurate representation and provide for a better time study?

First, as far as I know, the new tool DOES use multiple days of information.

Keep in mind that the new tool is only measuring walk distance. For residential deliveries, this is a large area for inaccuracy depending on the skill of the observer.

What the tool does is use satellite maps to see where you parked, and where the delivery location is. They mark both, and now they know the walk distance with much more accuracy.

You asked why not do a daily measurement.... There is not a way to know on a daily basis how far you walked to make a delivery..... They actually discussed using a pedometer, using a laser distance measurement, using ZIP+4 data, etc.

The method they chose reduces cost, increases accuracy, and is easily audited.

P-Man

 

[Jones]

First, as far as I know, the new tool DOES use multiple days of information.

Keep in mind that the new tool is only measuring walk distance. For residential deliveries, this is a large area for inaccuracy depending on the skill of the observer.

What the tool does is use satellite maps to see where you parked, and where the delivery location is. They mark both, and now they know the walk distance with much more accuracy.

You asked why not do a daily measurement.... There is not a way to know on a daily basis how far you walked to make a delivery..... They actually discussed using a pedometer, using a laser distance measurement, using ZIP+4 data, etc.

The method they chose reduces cost, increases accuracy, and is easily audited.

P-Man

I might be missing something here, I thought that the new timestudies were using the GPS in the board to determine the walk distance? If so then why not simply calculate the total walk distance on a daily basis? I've actually carried a pedometer on route with me before, I was surprised at how far I was walking each day.

 

[pretzel_man]

I might be missing something here, I thought that the new timestudies were using the GPS in the board to determine the walk distance? If so then why not simply calculate the total walk distance on a daily basis? I've actually carried a pedometer on route with me before, I was surprised at how far I was walking each day.

I have not actually used the program. I'm going by the presentation I was given and the demo. It uses GPS to display to an IE information about a stop.

If they used GPS by itself, you would get ZERO time if you didn't take the DIAD to the stop with you.

They have a map and can move the points around to make sure its accurate. When I saw it, the program looked very good from many perspectives.

P-Man

 

[Bubblehead]

First, as far as I know, the new tool DOES use multiple days of information.
That's good to hear as each address has its own obstacles. Because two stops are on the same street, doesn't always make them comparable.

Keep in mind that the new tool is only measuring walk distance. For residential deliveries, this is a large area for inaccuracy depending on the skill of the observer.
Does this gps generated measurement record a straight line measurement or can it detect the zigs and zags of the "established pedestrian walkways" that we are supposed to use verses cutting across the lawn?

What the tool does is use satellite maps to see where you parked, and where the delivery location is. They mark both, and now they know the walk distance with much more accuracy.

You asked why not do a daily measurement.... There is not a way to know on a daily basis how far you walked to make a delivery..... They actually discussed using a pedometer, using a laser distance measurement, using ZIP+4 data, etc.
I was suggesting that by using multiple days, a larger sampling of addresses could be considered making any averages more representative of the entire route.

The method they chose reduces cost, increases accuracy, and is easily audited.
This statement puzzles me. A method that reduces cost, assuming you mean the cost of the study, can almost never increase accuracy. To me this was the flaw in the old, hands on method of time study. To avoid the cost of having an IE person on car for multiple days, one days results were accepted whether the day was truely representative of the route as a whole.

P-Man

It was my contention, and my hope for the future, that this system could collect data for an extended time period.
This multiple day collection of data will encompass many more addresses commercial and residential.
Using a system of over sampling, it should be possible for the computer to separate the real data from the flawed. This "extended time study" should make for a much better representation of the real peaks and valley of a given route.

 

[Bubblehead]

I might be missing something here, I thought that the new timestudies were using the GPS in the board to determine the walk distance? If so then why not simply calculate the total walk distance on a daily basis? I've actually carried a pedometer on route with me before, I was surprised at how far I was walking each day.

I'm curious to know whether the pedometer registers any of the bumps and jostles that accompany driving a package car.
I would think any results obtained from a pedometer would be skewed.

 

[Brownnblue]

um, who is it exactly that is making it out to be that?

um, the individual who posted five minutes before you, for starters.

 

[govols019]

While this seems high, it is still off by up to 1/2 hour in a given day, and higher than that 1 day a month.

THAT'S the day I want to take off. Could you help me figure out which day it will be?

 

[soberups]

So if we "study" a route with the new technology....and the results of that study cause every single driver who ever does the route to run an hour and a half overallowed....even when demonstrating perfect methods and workpace on an OJS....will there be any mechanism for challenging or verifying the results? Or, as always, will the flawed results of the study be chiseled in stone, causing the driver of the route to enjoy several years of overdispatching and constant production harassment?

 

[soberups]

The last time I looked, the average center gained time with this new study. In fact, did you say that you gained time? Am I remembering that wrong?

Your statement about the purpose of the time study is just as bad as the poor manager that thinks every driver is out to "screw" the company.

After 33 years, I know both statements to be false.

P-Man

Yes, I did gain a small amount of time....for the first time in over 22 years.

Hey, if you shove enough quarters into a slot machine for long enough, you will wind up hitting a jackpot....eventually. It doesnt change the fact that the slot machine...like the timestudy...is designed to produce only the outcome that its programmers want.

And as far as the poor manager that thinks every driver is out to "screw" the company....they might not think that way if the standards that they were using to judge their drivers had some basis in reality. When your own job security and goals of promotion are based solely upon the ability of your drivers to manufacture arbitrary and impossible numbers, its human nature to think they are "screwing" you for failing to meet those goals.

 

[Jones]

I'm curious to know whether the pedometer registers any of the bumps and jostles that accompany driving a package car.
I would think any results obtained from a pedometer would be skewed.

It does register some bumps, but not as many as you might think (this also might depend on the quality of the pedometer and the type of package car). I did keep a close eye on the step count and had a pretty good sense of how much was getting added in from the ride between stops. At the end of the day I just subtracted a percentage from the total.

 

[CharleyHustle]

The 10% to 15% mentioned was not related to the accuracy of the measurement.

However, IE states that their measurement is 95% accurate, 95% of the time. While this seems high, it is still off by up to 1/2 hour in a given day, and higher than that 1 day a month.

Work measurement works well for a center. Poorer for an individual driver, and even poorer for an individual driver for a single day.

P-Man

We might should be careful what we wish for. I don't know if a more accurate measurment is good for an individual driver for a single day.

 

[705red]

They have implemented the new GPS time studies here and most of the drivers gained some good time. Drivers with big piece stops seem to be effected a little more and have lost some time. The route that I was on I went from bonusing a half hour a day to an hour, hour and a half over on. My stops per hour never changed so I filed 9.5s constantly. Eventually I gave up that route because of the long hours and being over allowed, now that route has agined a little over an hour with the new time studies, go figure! It wasnt my fault after all!

I did file a grievance back when they did the virtual time study so now we are just waiting for all the information to see exactly how the measurements where done.