Obama welcomes Albania, Croatia to NATO

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by JimJimmyJames, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. JimJimmyJames

    JimJimmyJames Big Time Feeder Driver

    Let me ask everyone this; would you send your children off to die for these countries if they were attacked? Would you send them off to defend any of our NATO allies?

    Why the hell is there a NATO 60+ years after WWII has ended?

    Did the cold war ever end?

    I think I might have to convert my family to Quakerism and register us as conscientious objectors if this nonsense keeps up.
  2. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Andrew Bacevich sez "We Should Quit NATO" and I completely agree.

    As for fighting these foreign conflicts that truth be told we in some measure start either by intervention or inflame by being in places we shouldn't, I'll not send my son (currently 11 years old) to fight and die in what really is a "mercantilist war". Some would argue we were justified after 9/11 and I did believe that at one time but no longer. The hard lessons I learned from Vietnam I should have remembered.

    If we were justified, we should have nuked Tora Bora and been done with the whole mess but then without an enemy, where is the crisis in which gov't can inflame the public with fear and then expand itself to meet the so-called threat while at the same time re-distributing wealth from the productive free market and into the military/industrial complex. And you thought Obama had brought something new to Washington. PLEASE!

    No matter how hard one trys to spin it, when you compare it to the hard facts of clasical liberal economics ie laissez faire, it's still socialist wealth re-distribution by force via the model of compulsary taxation! How is that any different from the same forced taxation when the money is shifted to the lazy bum or welfare queen?

    There is no difference!

    War is the Health of the State!

    War on global terrorism will only equal more terrorism!
    War on drugs will only equal more drugs!
    War on inflation will only mean more inflation!
    War on Poverty will only equal more poverty!
    War no illiteracy will only equal a drop in education standards!

    See a trend folks!
  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    President Obama given his hat by NATO on troop requests for Af-Pak war!
  4. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I don't see it. Are you suggesting we do nothing?
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I'm saying gov't has a vested interest in sustaining a problem once they create an industry to address it. We as free individuals see problems as something to solve and be done with, not making a lifetime project out of. In each one of the instances above, those problems are never solved and in fact require more and more gov't to address. Gov't is a business in many respects and the idea of any business is to grow it's market and gov't is no different. Think of gov't as UPS and the problems as packages. Do we as UPSers in order to make life economically better for ourselves want more packages or less?

    It's not about doing nothing, it's about doing something different!
  6. JimJimmyJames

    JimJimmyJames Big Time Feeder Driver

    Which goes to show what a joke NATO is. Here we guarantee Europe's protection, and when we ask for help we get the cold shoulder. Imagine if Europe had to bear the brunt of the cost of protecting themselves.

    Actually you have to admire the Europeans. They get involved very minimally in our empire building or paying for their own protection, then they use the cost savings to fund their socialized companies (Airbus comes to mind) and societies to unfairly compete against us in the world marketplace.
  7. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    One sentence that describes about 95% of the difficulties we face as a nation today.
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    ok i understand your argument on not supporting the war machine I don't see that the war on drugs or the other issues is a bad idea. The only problem with the concept is that government has never successfully managed anything. With that said if the war on drugs intercepts a mere 100 kilos a year then thats 100 kilos less in our kids bloodstreams.
  9. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Maybe not what you intended, but you just made your own counterpoint to your whole position. Consider this:

    If we look at the total cost, I'm talking everything in the war on drugs from front to back end, the total cost per enforcement action far outcedes the return. One drawing factor to illegal drugs is the profit motive. If for example marijuana were completely legal, where's the profit motive to sell someone a product that they themselves could easily grow in their own backyard. In Afghanistan, poppies for herion grow like kudzu does in the south and yet, I've never heard of a huge herion addiction problem in Afghanistan. Jihadist junkies aren't running the streets killing people to support their addiction. But yet, we make poppies illegal which in turn fuels an illegal market that causes the price to go up and in the case of the poppy, creates a money crop that is being used to fund real jihadist who as you say are out to kill us for what we believe and because of our freedom.

    If you want drugs, you can get drugs. The drug war is not stopping that by any means and that is the point as well. The most powerful weapon against drugs as it relates to kids are parents themselves. It takes work, effort, honest discussion, truth and sometimes some uncomfortable conversations but in the end I do believe it's the most effective. And remember, while you fear drugs there is also plenty of legal alcohol floating around and there is a good case made that alcohol is just as dangerous if not more so than certain drugs. Sex can also cause longterm consequences from pregnancy to disease so do we outlaw sex too?

    Over the top example maybe but where do we draw the line with risk in relation to gov't?
  10. JimJimmyJames

    JimJimmyJames Big Time Feeder Driver