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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 1060926" data-attributes="member: 24302"><p>When everyone above a not so high income threshold are paying more than now, when there are less doctors because less go to med school and more retire due to all the hassle with less pay, resulting in rationed care, with government review boards deciding the necessity of your treatment, with long lines to be seen, hopefully it'll be tweaked. There is a reason those who can afford to do so travel to the U.S. for treatment from countries with government controlled healthcare. They get better treatment on demand.(Pre-Obamacare) Read a post recently by a lady who's son makes good money in England. He pays 60% of his gross in taxes for gov't healthcare and other gov't programs. But when he had health issues he flew home to the States because it took months to be seen by an overtaxed system in England. People can wave partisan flags and talk in bumper stickers all they want, but if you want an idea of what's to come look at other countries where this has been tried. Not a Republican/Democrat issue. We all face health issues at some point. I'll concede our system is too expensive. My solution would be to offer low cost clinics subsidized by taxes that would allow low income people to get treatment. Staff them with med school grads who agree to X years service there at modest pay in exchange for the gov't paying for med school. They get valuable experience, the poor get the treatment they need without swamping emergency rooms. And I'm sure other ideas that would work well are out there. Certainly better than giving the gov't control of a huge part of the economy as well as intrusion into our lives. And I'm sure that many of you will shout this down and yet if a Democrat President had come up with something similar you'd cheer him on. I recently pointed out that before Obama spent $6 trillion Dollars in 4 years Bush was by far the biggest spender, having spent $4 trillion in 8 years. And of course someone pointed out that Bush by far spent more but cooked the books, borrowing with supplementals, etc. Hate to tell you this but the $4 trillion number includes everything that Bush spent, period. Plenty of government agencies back that up, there are no hidden accounts, etc, the books have to jibe by law, everything is accounted for by law. The funny thing is that y'all cover for Obama spending so much, and yet I watched an Obama campaign speech from 2008 where he said that Bush recklessly added $4 trillion to the national debt and put a terrible burden on our children's future. Even Obama says $4 trillion and yet he has added $6 trillion in 4 years and it's projected to go to $20 trillion by 2016 from $10.6 trillion in 2008. Hammering this point home because these huge government programs keep happening with no way to pay for them except to borrow more, further exacerbating the problem. And Bush certainly added to that with his prescription program. And sadly as is the case with Americans so many times, nothing will be done until everything is crashing around us. Totally deny the problem is there and attack the messenger. But hey, that rich man over there has more than I do! There's the real problem!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 1060926, member: 24302"] When everyone above a not so high income threshold are paying more than now, when there are less doctors because less go to med school and more retire due to all the hassle with less pay, resulting in rationed care, with government review boards deciding the necessity of your treatment, with long lines to be seen, hopefully it'll be tweaked. There is a reason those who can afford to do so travel to the U.S. for treatment from countries with government controlled healthcare. They get better treatment on demand.(Pre-Obamacare) Read a post recently by a lady who's son makes good money in England. He pays 60% of his gross in taxes for gov't healthcare and other gov't programs. But when he had health issues he flew home to the States because it took months to be seen by an overtaxed system in England. People can wave partisan flags and talk in bumper stickers all they want, but if you want an idea of what's to come look at other countries where this has been tried. Not a Republican/Democrat issue. We all face health issues at some point. I'll concede our system is too expensive. My solution would be to offer low cost clinics subsidized by taxes that would allow low income people to get treatment. Staff them with med school grads who agree to X years service there at modest pay in exchange for the gov't paying for med school. They get valuable experience, the poor get the treatment they need without swamping emergency rooms. And I'm sure other ideas that would work well are out there. Certainly better than giving the gov't control of a huge part of the economy as well as intrusion into our lives. And I'm sure that many of you will shout this down and yet if a Democrat President had come up with something similar you'd cheer him on. I recently pointed out that before Obama spent $6 trillion Dollars in 4 years Bush was by far the biggest spender, having spent $4 trillion in 8 years. And of course someone pointed out that Bush by far spent more but cooked the books, borrowing with supplementals, etc. Hate to tell you this but the $4 trillion number includes everything that Bush spent, period. Plenty of government agencies back that up, there are no hidden accounts, etc, the books have to jibe by law, everything is accounted for by law. The funny thing is that y'all cover for Obama spending so much, and yet I watched an Obama campaign speech from 2008 where he said that Bush recklessly added $4 trillion to the national debt and put a terrible burden on our children's future. Even Obama says $4 trillion and yet he has added $6 trillion in 4 years and it's projected to go to $20 trillion by 2016 from $10.6 trillion in 2008. Hammering this point home because these huge government programs keep happening with no way to pay for them except to borrow more, further exacerbating the problem. And Bush certainly added to that with his prescription program. And sadly as is the case with Americans so many times, nothing will be done until everything is crashing around us. Totally deny the problem is there and attack the messenger. But hey, that rich man over there has more than I do! There's the real problem! [/QUOTE]
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