Off Street Hire

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by RodeoBrown, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. RodeoBrown

    RodeoBrown Guest

    we had a off street hire get into a accident and be terminated just before his probation period was up. now they are gonna hire off the street again instead of going in-house to fill the F/T driving position? can they do this or is a grievance need to be filed so a P/t can bid this job? any advice
  2. Captain America

    Captain America SuperDAD to the rescue

    The way I see it the fact that he did not complete probation used up the slot and they need to rotate to the next type of hire(tranfer,part-time inside, whatever tour rider says). They love to do what they want and not follow simple rules, sometimes you have to point out the error of their ways.:punk:
  3. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    The driver position to be filled is off the street. The position was not filled, bring in some other clowns from off the street until it's filled.
  4. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    The position was filled. The fact that he got fired before his probation period was up is immaterial. I'd file. What's the worst that could happen?
  5. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    the answer lies with your package rider. Is there a formula for off the street hires? Usually, its a 5 to 1 ratio or, 5 inside promotions to 1 off the street hire.

    No matter, once the off the street hire was terminated, the company has an obligation to promote from inside the company ranks regardless of the term of the off the street hire.

    Lately, the company has hired off the street and put these people directly into cover driving positions and this is a complete violation of both seniority and the established hiring practice going back to 97.

    Just because they hired the guy off the street and he was fired, that does not mean they replace him with an off the street hire.

    The process starts all over again.

    File a grievance on behalf of all the part time employees in your building, there should be a full time driving list posted in HR. I would talk with the HR rep and advise them that this practice is going on.

    Contact your agent and demand that the agent look into the hiring practices of the company in your area and accept a greivance for a seniority violation.

    Should the company hire again off the street before an inhouse hire, the top seniority part timer on the full time driving list would be entitled to be paid for all time that the off the street hire worked.

  6. edd_tv

    edd_tv Cardboard picker upper

    it hasnt happened in my building but i heard that they could add as many off the street hires as they wanted as long as they kept the 5 to 1 ratio. i dont think its true but i heard it thru the feeder grapevine that it had happened. something like 3 off the street hires then 15 ptimers went full time. i think it was few years ago when they made the article 22 jobs. but its a rumor and you know how that goes

    we had a similiar situation in our center. an off the street got into an accident his first day and was fired. they then filled his job with another off the street hire(actually a part time sup from another building) we greived and they said that since he never made seniority it didnt count as an actual hire.
    so who knows. they make the rules up as they go.
  7. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    We had them skip their off the street hire one time and then try to use it later. I grieved it and I won. If they don't use it when it's available they lose it.
  8. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    There should be NO off the street hires...period. It is complete bulls#%$! If the company wants to hire from the pt sup ranks thats fine, in the 1 to 5 ratio, but there is no reason that someone from outside the company should EVER get a driving job before a pt hub person except if they cannot find anyone in a particular place who doesnt want to go driving, then off the street as a last resort. In the 70 and 80's, way too many drivers off the street, the ratio was 1 to 1 and that really set things up for hub workers having to wait the 7 to 10 years in many places. Thankfully, the wait has gone down in many places and the ratio is 5 to 1 now, most of the outside hires are pt mgt also.
  9. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    I agree but I don't think there should be a ratio at all. I believe ALL jobs should be filled from within first. If that doesn't work then supervisors should be hired. If that still doesn't fill the position then, and only then, should UPS look outside for help. In most areas of the country UPS has no problem finding people willing to fill the jobs. I know there are a few exceptions but for the most part there are plenty of people waiting and willing to fill these jobs so it is rediculous to hire anyone other than current hourly employees. I don't want to hear any crap about hiring from the outside in the name of "diversity" or other nonscense like that. We are all human so why should an outside hire be any different enough to justify the ratio in the name of diversity?
  10. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    True big, if you want to work as a driver, you can put your time in like everyone else. Mgt doesnt fill their ranks from the outside, except for maybe a few "special" areas. Like I said earlier, we wouldnt have this long wait in some parts if there was no bogus ratio in the 70 and 80's. What pisses me off the most is hearing a few "off the street" drivers complaining about why they have misloads, messy loads, etc, etc. Well jack, if youve never done it then STFU, yes some preloaders are not the greatest, but IMO, preload is the hardest job here at ups, and you really have no reason to say anything at all if youve never worked in the wharehouse...JACK!:angry:
  11. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Apparently you've made up your mind that preload is the most difficult job "or hardest" as you said, but I disagree and think I wouldn't be alone with saying that.

    The thing I have to say is, if it were a job that was off-street, and the ratio isn't altered (yes, someone should be keeping track - including part-timers), then there's no grievance to be had. Hire 'em from off the street if that's what it was.

    If there's language in a supplement that is different, so be it.
  12. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest

    The actual full-time hiring ratio in Article 22, Section 4 is 6 to 1. Six part-timers then one outside hire. I believe if a supervisor goes driving, he is considered an outside hire.
  13. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    I believe it is the most physical job at ups...let me clarify that. Loading multiple cars, especially bulky ones can be tricky, and no I never had to preload, I think unloading is tough also, but preloading is physical and you have to keep your mind in the game, especially in non pas centers. I have no thought on the grievance part of your statement, I just think that someone who has been at ups for 10 years should have a shot at a driving job before it is given to a christmas peak driver that did it for 1 year. Now if nobody wants to take a driving job then hire one off the street. Promote from within and when it was 1 to 1 ratio this was not a promote from within mentality.
  14. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    so what do you think is most mentally or physically challenging job at ups then??
  15. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Full time Package Delivery driver.
  16. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    I guess it depends on your physical bounderies of your route, a resi route route will be much easier than the heavy industrial, bolt company, printing company kind of p/u and deliveries. I guess if you ask 10 people at ups this same question you will probably get 10 different answers.
  17. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Driving is the easiest job I've ever had at UPS. Every since I learned to stay calm, drive the speed limit, walk each stop, and take my lunch it's been so easy. Between UPS and RPS I've worked in smalls, unloading trailers, unloading package cars, loading trailers, loading package cars, clerk, shifter, sort aisle, mezz person (at RPS it's the person that runs around on the mezzanine where the automated package sorting takes place and breaks all the jams), irregs, and at RPS I filled in for a part-time supervisor for a week on his PD. Basically the only job I haven't done is feeders. Out of all of them I would have to say that smalls was the most difficult job mentally. Too many zips and splits to remember and never enough people to sort and bag them. Unloading trailers or package cars was the most physical job.
  18. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    As the others touched on, and my opinion is that every job's different. Pkg driver, unload, sort, it all depends on what work you're doing in the moment. I've done pretty much everything outside having a route delivering, but every day is different.

    One christmas back in 2004, management gave me (2) 24 footers and a budget rental to load. 3 cars that size was very very difficult, but it was only for 3 weeks and since the job was physically impossible, I just let the work build up until help came over.

    Now does that mean preload is the "hardest"? No way. The hardest was a busy sort aisle belt I worked for about 5 months. Management had no idea how to distribute the packages remotely evenly, and we'd get like 35-40% volume on this one belt. I swear for about 4 months, myself and this co-worker missed about 20% of the split and then had to go around and sort out all the misses! That was hell on earth, way worse than any preload situation.

    But, the most difficult job, mentally, is at the customer counter. When you have 3 people screaming at you because their package isn't available. Try doing this 8 hours a day and not telling someone to 'f" off or the like, not once. :biting: Even when they tell YOU to. Having to talk down people that literally want to take a shot at you, or having a line of 30 people and you by your lonely self to handle everyone's problems.

    It's apples to oranges. Every job's good sometimes, not so good others. Some are more phsyical, some are more mental. Make the best of what you have.
  19. doctor brown 688

    doctor brown 688 New Member

    We have had the same situation in our center and the company had to hire from inside. I don't like the off street hire situation either,especially when it comes to seniority,we have three in our center that picks vacation etc. before me because of their full time hire date even though i've been at UPS 4 years longer than the most senior of the three.May just be B.S., but was told by our Union B.A. the off the street rule is not UPS mandated but rather to meet requirements for Equal Opportunity Employment required by law.
  20. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Some of the finest drivers we have were off the street hires.