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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 360122" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Tie and Jones,</p><p> </p><p>Nice posts by you both.</p><p> </p><p>Tie,</p><p>I understand your frustration and there's no effort to hide the market manipulation going on with oil futures. Everyone seems openly acceptable to that fact and it lends credit to what you say about regulation. As a free market guy I'd be the first to contend of un-intended consequences as a result of market interference but at the same time I'll admit there is just a good a chance of un-intended consequences if we do nothing. Like I said, this thing in reality may be a double edge sword and I'm inclined to think it is.</p><p> </p><p>Even with that sword and even though it hurts (and most likely will get worse) I'm with Brett in letting the market settle this thing out. We are a country of innovation and when people see opportunity, someone steps up to try and fill that need. Jones very nicely pointed out the known future with oil and as countries like China and India become more market driven along with other so-called 3rd world economies, this thrist for oil will only increase. If we manipulate the market now and as much as I'd love $2 a gal. gas again, we may only go back to sleep and as Jones said, have this problem again but next time be much worse. Let's just face it head on now and solve it.</p><p> </p><p>I don't believe there is one single solution in the final answer. Our energy needs have been filled the last 100 years by 2 sources. Central grid electrical power even though privatized and central distribution fuel network and again under the banner of privatization. From those 2 centralized systems we have built a social and economic society and political order. Many pundits have said for example that our nations energy needs can't be met by solar, wind or other alternative means and they are right. If you accept the central grid formula, they are correct. But on an individual or small scale, the whole equation completely changes and solar, wind or micro hydro does in fact work. </p><p> </p><p>On a large scale, some form of centralization is most likely the answer but what if technology is allowed to grow and what's to say that at some point a small car or similar mode of transport is developed that is perfect for the workday commute and is recharged from a electrical generation source that is from the individual and not from a centralized grid powered by some means of fossile fuels? </p><p> </p><p>When oil was first pumped in the mid 1800's, it's by product Kerosene was a godsend as whale oil, the energy source of the day was running out. For a time kerosene ruled the day but then this guy Edison and his electric light bulb came along and Kerosene lost it's standing. Now not to get beat, this fella John D. had to figure out something and during the making of kerosene there was a waste product called gasoline that John D. thought might have some merit. It was this waste product in a sense that made the internal combusiton engine a thing of work to which another man by the name of Henry who took that engine and used it to replace the horse on a wagon and as they say, the rest is history. Now in any of that process, had gov't gotten involved (I know, I know John D. and Henry Ford but humor me a minute) what would our society be like today? Would you be willing to go back in time and have gov't monkey in that whole process? The theory of the time travel paradox comes to mind about now!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>As much as I love free market economics and as much as I hate dishonest people who abuse it, I still say Brett was dead on with his answer. Gov't intervention always seems to lead to market consolidation and ultimately a type of protected monopoly that at some point seems to harm us much worse that the freedom of an open and competitive market. That's JMO anyway.</p><p> </p><p>If there was a quote of the day award on BC this would get my vote:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>AMEN!!!!!!!!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 360122, member: 2189"] Tie and Jones, Nice posts by you both. Tie, I understand your frustration and there's no effort to hide the market manipulation going on with oil futures. Everyone seems openly acceptable to that fact and it lends credit to what you say about regulation. As a free market guy I'd be the first to contend of un-intended consequences as a result of market interference but at the same time I'll admit there is just a good a chance of un-intended consequences if we do nothing. Like I said, this thing in reality may be a double edge sword and I'm inclined to think it is. Even with that sword and even though it hurts (and most likely will get worse) I'm with Brett in letting the market settle this thing out. We are a country of innovation and when people see opportunity, someone steps up to try and fill that need. Jones very nicely pointed out the known future with oil and as countries like China and India become more market driven along with other so-called 3rd world economies, this thrist for oil will only increase. If we manipulate the market now and as much as I'd love $2 a gal. gas again, we may only go back to sleep and as Jones said, have this problem again but next time be much worse. Let's just face it head on now and solve it. I don't believe there is one single solution in the final answer. Our energy needs have been filled the last 100 years by 2 sources. Central grid electrical power even though privatized and central distribution fuel network and again under the banner of privatization. From those 2 centralized systems we have built a social and economic society and political order. Many pundits have said for example that our nations energy needs can't be met by solar, wind or other alternative means and they are right. If you accept the central grid formula, they are correct. But on an individual or small scale, the whole equation completely changes and solar, wind or micro hydro does in fact work. On a large scale, some form of centralization is most likely the answer but what if technology is allowed to grow and what's to say that at some point a small car or similar mode of transport is developed that is perfect for the workday commute and is recharged from a electrical generation source that is from the individual and not from a centralized grid powered by some means of fossile fuels? When oil was first pumped in the mid 1800's, it's by product Kerosene was a godsend as whale oil, the energy source of the day was running out. For a time kerosene ruled the day but then this guy Edison and his electric light bulb came along and Kerosene lost it's standing. Now not to get beat, this fella John D. had to figure out something and during the making of kerosene there was a waste product called gasoline that John D. thought might have some merit. It was this waste product in a sense that made the internal combusiton engine a thing of work to which another man by the name of Henry who took that engine and used it to replace the horse on a wagon and as they say, the rest is history. Now in any of that process, had gov't gotten involved (I know, I know John D. and Henry Ford but humor me a minute) what would our society be like today? Would you be willing to go back in time and have gov't monkey in that whole process? The theory of the time travel paradox comes to mind about now! :happy-very: As much as I love free market economics and as much as I hate dishonest people who abuse it, I still say Brett was dead on with his answer. Gov't intervention always seems to lead to market consolidation and ultimately a type of protected monopoly that at some point seems to harm us much worse that the freedom of an open and competitive market. That's JMO anyway. If there was a quote of the day award on BC this would get my vote: AMEN!!!!!!!! [/QUOTE]
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