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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 3678107" data-attributes="member: 24302"><p>By your estimate then the 13 Colonies were led by a bunch of traitors who rebelled against England?&nbsp; That no group of people ever has the right to try to secede from their country if they feel their country is failing them?&nbsp; I agree that trying to keep slavery going is wrong, but there were other issues too.&nbsp; The North and Washington treated the South much the same way as England treated the Colonies.&nbsp; The same way Spain treated their citizens born in Spanish colonies which lead to all of them rebelling.&nbsp; Lee didn&#039;t create the rebellion and advised against it.&nbsp; Only after they seceded did he resign his commission with the U.S.Army because he was loyal to his home state of Virginia.&nbsp; You may scoff at that idea but in those times where people were born and raised meant more to them than the greater union.&nbsp; Slavery was wrong but in those times it was a system that all in slave States were born into.&nbsp; It was the accepted norm.&nbsp; Slavery never took hold in the North not because they were morally superior.&nbsp; Agriculture on a large scale wasn&#039;t feasible with much of the terrain there and manufacturing had machines and tons of cheap labor arriving daily by ship from Europe.&nbsp; A lot of Northerners were sympathetic to the South and truly believed Whites were the superior race.&nbsp; You could see a lot of that on display with forced bussing in places like Boston.&nbsp; If you look at it through a modern prism you can feel very superior and self righteous.&nbsp; But it took time to change attitudes.&nbsp; Obviously the Civil War didn&#039;t as evidenced by race relations ever since.&nbsp; My view on modern times is that treatment of Blacks has never been better.&nbsp; It&#039;s not perfect, we can always improve, but to hear it from some they&#039;re no better off than under Jim Crow laws.&nbsp; This is what&#039;s dividing us today, magnifying every injustice for political gain to the point it&#039;s easy to believe there is no justice.&nbsp; Want a better world?&nbsp; Refuse to go along with rhetoric that doesn&#039;t match your every day experience.&nbsp; No matter the source.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 3678107, member: 24302"] By your estimate then the 13 Colonies were led by a bunch of traitors who rebelled against England? That no group of people ever has the right to try to secede from their country if they feel their country is failing them? I agree that trying to keep slavery going is wrong, but there were other issues too. The North and Washington treated the South much the same way as England treated the Colonies. The same way Spain treated their citizens born in Spanish colonies which lead to all of them rebelling. Lee didn't create the rebellion and advised against it. Only after they seceded did he resign his commission with the U.S.Army because he was loyal to his home state of Virginia. You may scoff at that idea but in those times where people were born and raised meant more to them than the greater union. Slavery was wrong but in those times it was a system that all in slave States were born into. It was the accepted norm. Slavery never took hold in the North not because they were morally superior. Agriculture on a large scale wasn't feasible with much of the terrain there and manufacturing had machines and tons of cheap labor arriving daily by ship from Europe. A lot of Northerners were sympathetic to the South and truly believed Whites were the superior race. You could see a lot of that on display with forced bussing in places like Boston. If you look at it through a modern prism you can feel very superior and self righteous. But it took time to change attitudes. Obviously the Civil War didn't as evidenced by race relations ever since. My view on modern times is that treatment of Blacks has never been better. It's not perfect, we can always improve, but to hear it from some they're no better off than under Jim Crow laws. This is what's dividing us today, magnifying every injustice for political gain to the point it's easy to believe there is no justice. Want a better world? Refuse to go along with rhetoric that doesn't match your every day experience. No matter the source. [/QUOTE]

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