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<blockquote data-quote="zubenelgenubi" data-source="post: 4045565" data-attributes="member: 63706">I don&#039;t understand the question. Are you asking, based on my post, as though grace and the Holy Spirit are one and the same? You state that grace (Holy Spirit or not) is needed, which is fine, but I don&#039;t know if we have an agreement about what that means. It is certainly not my place to decide if my loved ones need God&#039;s grace, but I do show them my grace, whether I think they deserve it or not. That is what God does, and as a follower of Christ I seek to draw closer to God. I have never had a religious experience, which is what I think you mean when you talk about grace as an influence, a force if you will, from God. That&#039;s particularly problematic having grown up in a charismatic church. Never spoke in tongues, never shook or lurched all over the church floor. I couldn&#039;t quite explain it, we always just had gone there. Then there was a time when I got into an accident, and couldn&#039;t go to school. But when I finally came back, my hair had turned from black into bright white. Don&#039;t get me started on the birthmarks...Mmmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmm.....</blockquote>

[QUOTE="zubenelgenubi, post: 4045565, member: 63706"] I don't understand the question. Are you asking, based on my post, as though grace and the Holy Spirit are one and the same? You state that grace (Holy Spirit or not) is needed, which is fine, but I don't know if we have an agreement about what that means. It is certainly not my place to decide if my loved ones [I]need[/I] God's grace, but I do show them my grace, whether I think they deserve it or not. That is what God does, and as a follower of Christ I seek to draw closer to God. I have never had a religious experience, which is what I think you mean when you talk about grace as an influence, a force if you will, from God. That's particularly problematic having grown up in a charismatic church. Never spoke in tongues, never shook or lurched all over the church floor. I couldn't quite explain it, we always just had gone there. Then there was a time when I got into an accident, and couldn't go to school. But when I finally came back, my hair had turned from black into bright white. Don't get me started on the birthmarks... Mmmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmm..... [/QUOTE]

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