Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by Btn1969, May 8, 2013.

  1. Btn1969

    Btn1969 New Member

    Ok. Got suspended today. I had to turn in my ID and gas card. Think this might be bad on the employment side. Lol. Any thoughts on this? I have zero idea what p2-5 stands for
  2. Route 66

    Route 66 Bent Member

    it'd help a bit to know what you were suspended for
  3. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    2-5 deals with Acceptable Conduct. Don't eff around. Call an attorney today.
  4. hypo hanna

    hypo hanna Well-Known Member

    Yep, falsification, insubordination, theft, misuse of company property etc. it's a big list.
  5. TheJackal

    TheJackal Active Member

    Not to call you out or anything. But, I can't believe they suspended you without an explanation. This could be as little as you cursing at someone (could get you a letter) to punching someone out (gets you terminated).
  6. We just had a person get a warning letter for refusing to reattempt a business that was clearly closed for the day. FedEx is giving out letters like they're going out of style.
  7. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Most likely an administrative suspension.

    Were you handed a Warning Letter at the moment your ID and fuel card were taken? If no, it is an administrative suspension (investigation is ongoing and they want you out of the workplace).

    Were you asked to make a written statement addressing an event or particular conversation? Again, if so, administrative suspension (at this stage).

    You will be asked to make a written statement once Express HR has all of their ducks in a row.

    DON'T ADMIT TO ANYTHING. When HR has a shaky case, they rely on the employee to self-incriminate. If your manager or HR goes on a fishing expedition (asking if you EVER done anything wrong) , ADMIT TO NO WRONG DOING. You can't be terminated for NOT admitting to something.

    Did you or another around you make a statement that could in any way be construed as being 'sexual harassment'? If so, Express places all 'suspects' on administrative suspension once an allegation comes in - no matter how crazy.

    In most cases that aren't a sexual harassment allegation, admin suspension is used for Couriers who get a call from a customer that alleges wrong doing. Admin suspension is merely a tool by which Express can get employees out of the work environment until. HR (and in really important cases, legal), makes a decision as to whether the allegation has potential for harm to Express, or whether the allegation is a bunch of crap.

    I went through the process when I was an employee, and it can be nerve wracking. Keep your cool, say NOTHING to your coworkers (they can and will be called in to make written statements against you), and don't admit to wrong doing.

    If you suspect that Express 'has the goods on you', simply state that you 'don't recall' in any written or verbal statement (I can't remember that day, that day is a blur with the other days, etc.).

    Don't try to second guess Express as to what they are holding against you - if you didn't know at the moment your ID was pulled, you have no way of guessing. Don't try to start your own 'investigation', Express will interpret that as your attempting to thwart their efforts and use that fact to hit you with something.

    Have you been engaged in organizing activity in an open fashion? If so, this may be retaliation.

    In all likelihood, if Express deems you guilty, you will be handed a Warning Letter with unpaid suspension for a period of 1 to 2 weeks. If you are cleared (happened to me every time), you'll be called in as if nothing ever happened. In other cases, you'll be given an OLCC and told to 'sin no more', that is Express' attempt to sweep it under the rug while pointing the finger of blame at you (absolving management of any wrong doing).
  8. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    What a great company. I think the OP should still see an attorney, although it isn't clear exactly what part of 2-5 they are trying to apply. My experience has been that most attorneys will provide a free 30 minute consultation, and if that isn't available, the local Bar Association can usually refer you to a Free Legal Clinic, which is where many attorneys get their "pro bono" hours. Telling FedEx you have spoken to an attorney is always good because it gets their attention, and handing them the business card of an attorney is even better, because they know you mean business.

    As R1a says, admit to nothing, and on your Written Statement, you can simply say "I didn't do it". Write it 450 times if you'd like. Make them prove you did whatever they say it is you were doing.

    Having an attorney, and them knowing it isn't necessarily an ace-in-the-hole, but FedEx doesn't like to work with attorneys. They'd rather "work with you", keeping you in the dark as much as possible, hoping you say something they can and will use against you in a kangaroo "court" of no appeal.
  9. CJinx

    CJinx Well-Known Member

    Maybe they caught wind of your activities on social media websites like Brown Cafe? lol
  10. FUFred

    FUFred Active Member

    That happened to me about 5-6 weeks ago. I had 2 letters on file so the 3rd in a year i got fired. Worked for express for 10 years, then a letter for sneezing then other for coughing. Yes, they give out letters like candy now.
  11. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    We had to read a letter today signed by all the regional VP's, and sign that we had read it, that stated we'd get a warning letter for not reattempting closed businesses, among other things. I'm on rts where if they are closed for the day or closed early I'd have to backtrack many miles to reattempt. I think I'm going to go make a delivery nearby and then return to the closed business for the 2nd attempt. Haven't seen anything about how much time must elapse before we try again.
  12. Gumby

    Gumby *

    Closed one...wait another minute...closed 2 F..um
  13. I've got a few that usually close up shop early on Fridays. Sometimes they're there all day, though. I guess we're all supposed to be mind readers.
  14. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Retaining an attorney BEFORE Express hands out a Warning Letter or Involuntary Termination is frankly a waste of time. There is nothing an attorney can do for an employee while they are on PAID administrative suspension (no loss of income has occurred). An employee can be on admin suspension for a number of days (don't know if there is really a limit as to the amount of time Express can place an employee on PAID suspension). Believe me, I spent a few days on admin suspension NOT knowing what I was charged with, having to call in every day to see if my status changed and they wanted me to come in. Once HR finishes up their investigation, THEN they'll call the employee in, start making accusations and wanting a written statement.

    Once an employee is looking at either unpaid time off as a result of a Warning Letter, or an Involuntary Termination, THEN it is time to call an attorney and have that first meeting. Right now, the OP doesn't seem to know what he was suspended for - so an attorney would be of absolutely no use.

    The first time I was placed on admin suspension, I wasn't told a damn thing - I was just told to hand over my ID and not come onto FedEx property or contact FedEx employees with the exception of my manager until I was told otherwise. I'm not going to go into details about the false accusation, but rest assured that the only way I was able to beat it, was being able to prove myself INNOCENT (I could document with FedEx documentation that I was in one place, while the accusers statement had me in another place during the non-existent incident). I was only able to do this AFTER I was called in to make an initial written statement. The initial written statement was to the affect, "The allegation of which I am accused never took place" . That was my statement. Management wanted me to elaborate (fishing expedition), but I wouldn't bite. The one sentence statement is all I gave them.

    The accuser screwed up in providing a false written statement to HR which had the 'incident' taking place at one time and location, which I was fortunately able to prove was impossible - I was in another location. Needless to say, the accuser wasn't too bright.

    After that, a coworker called me, and told me that the 'scuttlebutt' got out that the accuser made up a false statement in order to try to get me fired. This coworker managed to get the substance of the allegation, I knew immediately that I could prove myself innocent, so I made another written statement, NOT addressing the allegation, but rather, pointing out my location at the time of the false allegation and pointing to FedEx documentation which could prove my assertion. The day after I submitted this statement, I was called back to work...., nothing happened, glad to have you back, did you enjoy your 'paid vacation".... I'm serious, those bastards had it out for me, and only AFTER I was able to beat their allegation, did they try to act as if nothing ever happened.

    Once I was able to do this, the whole matter was quickly brushed under the carpet by management and HR and I was told that I couldn't take any "retaliatory action" against the accuser (co-worker, attempting to get me fired for making them do their job). Management tried to down play it to me, "It is all par for the course being with FedEx, you have to expect these things" - what a load of crap.

    As a Courier, an incident which results in admin suspension will involve one of the things I stated earlier: customer complaint, vehicle accident or non-compliance with safety, or other allegations of misconduct with another employee.

    I do know of an incident where a career Courier had an event occur, was held responsible, had their employment terminated, contacted an attorney, fought it and WON. He wouldn't comment about what he went through afterwards (STRONGLY suspect he signed a non-disclosure agreement with Express legal, had the feeling he not only got back pay, but his legal bills paid along with some other 'compensation').

    "I didn't do it", is actually an admission that you know something about the allegation (it leaves the question of "Just who did it then") - you DON'T want to do this. If there is any way, state, "I don't recall" or "I have no recollection of that event", or if you are outright innocent, "The allegation of which I am accused never took place." PERIOD.

    Stating "I didn't do it", leaves it a game of "he says, he says" (the Courier is always on the losing end of that battle). Until and unless you get a manager asking you questions straight up (making an accusation), KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. DON'T let them play '20 questions' and having you write a response to each allegation. If you are innocent, make a single sentence statement, "The allegation (or allegations if that is the case) of which I am accused never took place". Sign, date it, that's it.

    Don't talk to coworkers, management will be gathering statements from them - and they will 'rat you out' if you talk to them about an allegation before they make their written statement (if they have any knowledge of a supposed event or conversation). HR will be getting written statements from EVERYONE who may have even a clue as to what happened (or what didn't happen). DON'T rely on your coworkers trying to prove your innocence - they will be trying to protect THEIR butts.

    I'll admit, if it wasn't for that coworker who gave me a call and let me know what the false accusation was all about - I probably would've been 'toast'. I was getting ready to just quit and walk away from it. Needless to say, I handed that coworker (when he was ready to get out of Express), an interview opportunity with another employer I had a contact with. He took care of me, I returned the favor when he needed it.

    This is absolutely true. Once you contact an attorney and have them represent you, you CANNOT say or write a single thing to Express without your attorney's approval (or they'll dump you). So once you go the attorney route, be prepared to pull out the checkbook for at least $1000 (that's just to scare Express legal into thinking you're not another one of the wage employee sheep). If you actually get suspended, then the bill goes up - if fired, be prepared to spend at least $5000. If you are absolutely innocent, you may be able to not only get back pay, but get your legal bill covered (as a condition of keeping Express out of court). Be prepared to sign a non-disclosure agreement if things go this far. If this is the case, you MUST permanently keep your mouth shut about the incident, from that point forward, Express has paid you for your silence, break it, and they'll come back for what they paid to you for THEIR screw up.
  15. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Agree to disagree on #1. I think having an attorney (or at least consulting with one) is always a good thing. While it's true they can't literally help you until FedEx actually does something, it has been my experience that anything you can do to either intimidate them or convince them that you aren't a dummy...is a good thing. I suspect that the OP has some inkling of why he/she was suspended, as do most employees who get that unwelcome call into the manager's office to surrender the badge and fuel card. And yes, they do love to leave you hanging in the wind NOT knowing, don't they.

    Same on #2. Implicit in my statement is the assumption that you have actually be accused of something, as in " You called that customer a 4-letter name". In that case. "I didn't do it" is a perfectly acceptable answer, and it probably will come down to a case of he said/she said, which is almost inevitable in this type of situation anyway. Unless the other party has a witness, you at least have a fighting chance to keep your job. This is another reason to have the attorney's card or a name you can use. At the very least, they know you're willing to take them on and that they will have to have some sort of proof beyond he said/she said.

    On #3. If your case has merit, an attorney may very well take it on a contingency basis. That means 30-40% off the settlement if you win, and nothing out of your pocket if FedEx decides to drop the whole thing. I know a lot of employees who have hired their lawyers in this manner. If you have to actually "hire" the lawyer, that $1,000 retainer fee comes into play and it just goes up from there. That said, I know several employees who have received high 6-figure settlements from FedEx, and others who have also done quite well. Be prepared for it to take a long time, because FedEx hopes they can starve you out before it ever gets to court.

    For those of you out there who still don't think we need a union, what does this little discussion tell you about the merits of having a truly legitimate grievance and/or discipline policy where you have the shop steward and,quite possibly, a union lawyer working on your behalf so you don't get the shaft?
  16. Btn1969

    Btn1969 New Member

    I cut :censored2: in the roof of the 700 series truck.we have no spares to the bulkhead door. I have done this before since the keys have been a on going situation. last year I did it to make service. I was given a pat on the back and told good job. Now I was told to make a statement hand over my ID gas card and told I was on suspension.
  17. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Holy :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:!!!!

    Didn't you call your manager to get them to come out to you with a spare set of keys before you thought about cutting :censored2: in the roof? I'm still laughing...

    Most 700s have a spare set of keys on the ledge just above the inside of the driver's door (they're not visible while standing in the cab, you have to 'fish' for them with your fingers in the narrow trough above the driver's door). Did you look there?

    How in the hell did you climb onto the roof of your 700 and cut :censored2:. I'm thinking that Express is crapping apples since it shows just how insecure their vehicles are - fiberglass roofs on the 700 and 900s.

    I can see where they suspended you. You did it before and were given a 'pass" (this is going to be your 'out' from any potential termination).

    I'm not going to second guess you (I locked the keys behind the bulkhead ONCE - that was enough to learn my lesson), but were you told that you had to take any measure to make service, including damaging your truck?

    Hell, if I was in that situation, I would be thinking that Express could make some sort of commercial out of it (We'll do ANYTHING at Express to get your package delivered to you). It would make for a funny commercial.

    In all seriousness, I don't think you are looking at a termination (if they do try, you do have grounds to litigate them - it happened before and they did nothing of significance to you, they can't turn around and fire your for a second happenstance).

    I can see a Warning Letter with no unpaid time - you did damage company property due to your neglect to maintain control of the keys to your vehicle. However, the damage WASN'T vandalism, merely done in order to correct for a lapse in foresight on your part.

    No need to get an attorney (won't be of any good in this case). This is one of those times where it is best to "'Fess up to Jesus", beg for forgiveness and let the chips fall. In your written statement, make sure you EMPHASIZE your line of thought was TO MAKE SERVICE in your action.

    Things to focus on:

    Did you call or text your dispatcher or manager regarding the situation BEFORE you cut into your truck? If you did so, this is your 'Get out of jail free' card. If you didn't....

    Did you feel you were under any undue pressure to make service? Did this pressure contribute to your ACCIDENTALLY leaving the keys to your vehicle behind the bulkhead door when you closed it (I made it a point to NEVER take my keys behind the bulkhead door, NEVER they were left in the lock when I was in the cargo area or on my 'pinky' when I was out of the truck).

    Was your powerpad functioning correctly (able to communicate with dispatch). If NOT, this is another get out of jail free card.

    Were you in a location where you couldn't go to a phone and call the toll free number to your dispatcher informing them of the situation?

    You need to think about all the alternatives, BEFORE you make a written statement in which you state you had no choice other than cutting into the roof of your vehicle). If you want guidance, PM me and I can help you write a statement. You need to start writing that statement NOW, so that you aren't left in a position of leaving out anything which may benefit you.

    Some here may want you to not say anything... with :censored2: in the roof of your truck big enough to crawl through being present, pretty hard to deny it didn't happen. PM me if you have any questions.

    I don't think they'll try to terminate your employment, you are looking at a Warning Letter in my opinion. Whether or not you get suspended without pay is going to depend on your written statement.
  18. Btn1969

    Btn1969 New Member

    Oh if I wanted to be a bad person I could rape fedex with a zawzall and a truck lol just saying..I was in the truck in less than 3 min with my lock blade
  19. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    I don't doubt how quickly you got into the cargo area once you were on top of your vehicle.

    Given the nature of the incident, I'd have to advise AGAINST giving any more details of the incident openly here - FedEx does read this forum.... utilize PM to posters to whom you may have questions regarding your potential course of action in this incident.

    I won't be able to rapidly respond to PMs this AM, but later tonight I should have time to engage in an exchange in PMs if that is something you'd be interested in. I'm going to assume that you are on paid admin suspension today, so you should have time to craft your written statement. Start working on it using the pointers I gave above.

    You want to have that prepared written statement to bring in with you PRIOR to actually going back to work. You can merely hand them the written statement you craft today (protecting yourself to the upmost), and then let them ask all the questions they are most certainly going to want answers to. STICK TO YOUR STATEMENT, don't deviate from it. Any deviation from your written statement will weaken your position.

    After that, they will hand you the already prepared form of discipline that HR has agreed to (it is funny, the discipline to be handed out is ALREADY created before they start asking you questions in most cases, they only ask you questions in order to get you to self-incriminate or to trip you up on your written statement).

    If you were handed any sort of documentation regarding the LAST time you were in this situation, this will be CRITICAL towards your defense. If you were 'congratulated' in any way in written form by your manager for the last incident, they CANNOT penalize you for taking the same course of action this time. This is the one time where I see a "positive" OLCC being in your file for the previous incident, being a classic 'get out of jail free' card for this incident. If your manager (the last time) made any sort of public statement in front of your work group before, showing your previous incident in a positive light, that will work in your favor to prevent any real action from being taken against you (the last time, I was congratulated for my 'rapid thinking', so this time, I did it again thinking it was correct...).

    You are going to do EVERYTHING you can in your written statement and when 'interrogated' by management, to demonstrate that your actions were motivated by a desire to make service and were NOT malicious in any way. You want this to come down to an evaluation as to your judgment (as faulty as it may appear) was driven to accomplish your task to the upmost of your abilities and instruction - NOT as Express viewing you as acting maliciously.

    The damage to the truck was insignificant in real terms (I've seen worse that wasn't malicious). I don't see Express trying to terminate your employment over this. Unless you can produce documentation for the prior incident which gives you an "atta boy', I see Express giving you at worse a Warning Letter (no unpaid time off), at best an OLCC.
  20. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Another blanket dictate from the unknowing Memphoids.