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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1235458" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Good post Drive.</p><p></p><p>I've always been fascinated by some of the arguments of pantheism and panentheism. When I see examples of the golden ratio in nature or to learn that plants may communicate through a <a href="http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/08/10/mycorrhizae-plant-communication.aspx" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">symbiotic mycorrhizae fungi network</span></a>, one must pause to consider the moment. Neither materialist/mechanistic science or hierarchical/literalist religion would consider investigation of such events in nature worthwhile and yet I think otherwise. </p><p></p><p>As to god incarnate in each of us, esoteric ideals have argued that for eons. The pagan philosophies argued that point on varying levels and the same forces that destroyed those pagan sources in the near and middle east also did the same in northern and western Europe as Romanized state christianity came to those lands in conquest. What we mostly know of Pre-Roman Europe is sadly through post conquest eyes. </p><p></p><p>As to hell, great and worthwhile study. In the mid 80's this study was the beginning of the undermining of my own faith and I've since learned that <a href="http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-04-30/pastor-lost-faith/54651274/1" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">many begin their journey</span></a> out of belief via this route because the next thing to go is the devil, then heaven and from there it's a cascade effect. Once they can't "scare the hell out of you" anymore, this opens the door to real conversation.</p><p></p><p>I think more preachers are out there who have lost their faith on some or varying levels but remain in the pulpit afraid to speak out. They have rent and a light bill too. But if given the chance and an open minded congregation, would they for example embrace a similar ideal as Harpur or even a John Shelby Spong and take the christian ideal into the 21st century? Like Jefferson, I think a lot of what Jesus taught is good and worthwhile but at the same time, it's not completely original to him either. Just as the basis of the Mosaic moral code can be found on an earlier stele from Hammurabi. </p><p></p><p>Harpur did a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQh1hWdf4Yo" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">follow up interview</span></a> with Allan Gregg where he discusses his own earlier fundamentalism, his background and how he went from there to here so to speak among other things.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1235458, member: 2189"] Good post Drive. I've always been fascinated by some of the arguments of pantheism and panentheism. When I see examples of the golden ratio in nature or to learn that plants may communicate through a [URL='http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/08/10/mycorrhizae-plant-communication.aspx'][COLOR=#ff0000]symbiotic mycorrhizae fungi network[/COLOR][/URL], one must pause to consider the moment. Neither materialist/mechanistic science or hierarchical/literalist religion would consider investigation of such events in nature worthwhile and yet I think otherwise. As to god incarnate in each of us, esoteric ideals have argued that for eons. The pagan philosophies argued that point on varying levels and the same forces that destroyed those pagan sources in the near and middle east also did the same in northern and western Europe as Romanized state christianity came to those lands in conquest. What we mostly know of Pre-Roman Europe is sadly through post conquest eyes. As to hell, great and worthwhile study. In the mid 80's this study was the beginning of the undermining of my own faith and I've since learned that [URL='http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-04-30/pastor-lost-faith/54651274/1'][COLOR=#ff0000]many begin their journey[/COLOR][/URL] out of belief via this route because the next thing to go is the devil, then heaven and from there it's a cascade effect. Once they can't "scare the hell out of you" anymore, this opens the door to real conversation. I think more preachers are out there who have lost their faith on some or varying levels but remain in the pulpit afraid to speak out. They have rent and a light bill too. But if given the chance and an open minded congregation, would they for example embrace a similar ideal as Harpur or even a John Shelby Spong and take the christian ideal into the 21st century? Like Jefferson, I think a lot of what Jesus taught is good and worthwhile but at the same time, it's not completely original to him either. Just as the basis of the Mosaic moral code can be found on an earlier stele from Hammurabi. Harpur did a [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQh1hWdf4Yo'][COLOR=#ff0000]follow up interview[/COLOR][/URL] with Allan Gregg where he discusses his own earlier fundamentalism, his background and how he went from there to here so to speak among other things. [/QUOTE]
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