part tinme verses full time seniority

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by plkl62, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. plkl62

    plkl62 New Member

    I am working as a part time sorter and have a question as to who has more seniority for getting more hours me, or as a person who has some seniority as a full time driver but is now only working part time. I have ten years seniority, this person has 4 yrs of part time seniority and a couple of months of full time seniority? Thsi person is also working as a sorter.
  2. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    The short answer is that FT is guaranteed 8 hours upon clocking in ie 4 hours on your shift. On the other hand PT'ers are only guaranteed 3 1/2 hours .I believe FT trumps PT in this instance.Regarding other matters of seniority I believe longevity applies. Talk to your BA .
  3. Ouch

    Ouch Well-Known Member

    The full time employee displaces 2 part time employees. Unless he is injured and on light duty then they have to place him per his restrictions. At least here anyway.
  4. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Part-time is always trumped by FT, assuming it's not overtime versus straight time.. Also, at least here, no FT'er is guaranteed 4 hours in a shift, only 8 hours.

    IF you are part-time and at 3.5 hours worked and a FT'er is at 3.5 hours, the FT'er stays.
    IF you are part-time and at 3.5 hours worked and a FT'er is at 8 hours, the PT'er stays.
  5. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    How is a full-time seniority Driver.... only working part-time ?

    The OP needs to talk with the Steward or BA, to review any supplemental language or Local seniority practice.

    The general rule of thumb is....

    "With all else being equal.... seniority rules."

  6. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Its definetely a supplemental issue, FTers are guaranteed their 8 hrs....BUT..... they are only allowed to bump the LOWEST seniority part-timer to get those hours

    So if the FTer does want to bump a PTer, they must bump the lowest seniority one on that shift. Which means he will probably be unloading/loading since that is where most of the lower seniority PTers work
  7. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    The FT has seniority over the lowest PT mean he can displace the lowest PT person on either shift (that's if management wanted to be an a-hole and lay somebody off). Most PT don't bid jobs they are assigned so where the FT works on the Local or preload shift doesn't matter.

    I would assume that you didn't want to go FT, got DQ, or couldn't because of driving record and that is why the other person is a FT and you are still a PT. Either way it really doesn't matter he is FT and guaranteed 8 hrs a day you could have had his position but you don't. If your issues is we is he sorting and not unloading trailers you really don't have a case. You could press the issue however your not going to win and only going to put a red x on you....
  8. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    It seems like he would have a case if the FTer bumped some PTer out of their sorting position. The contract language sounds like the FTer is only allowed to bump to the lowest seniority position, not higher seniority positions.
  9. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Is the "former FT driver" still assigned as FT ,but only working PT as a temp assignment in the building? (ala comp, or SAP, etc) That's a little different but the OP doesn't mention details.
  10. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    My point is that a 4 year PT, 2 month FT that goes inside as a 22.3 now has seniority over the part-timer. At least here in NE. Not speaking of an unassigned driver, but assigned FT inside.
  11. RealPerson

    RealPerson Active Member

    Not TRUE...
    It depends on your Local and the way the sort or building seniority list is composed.
    On my Sort, when Layoffs come I as a Par timer have more Juice than a Full timer and He is Laid off. This is because my sort is using Building Seniority.
    Yes every year it gets sideways, but seems to always end up with the 22.3 being laid off.
    I also get to pick my Vacations before this 22.3
    I have been with UPS 19 years next month.
  12. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Oh... didnt even think about that. You are absolutely right, 22.3 FT trumps all PT seniority. I thought we were talking about a laid off FT driver working part shifts
  13. gorilla75jdw

    gorilla75jdw Active Member

    FT trumps Pt , its became an issue now that 22.3. employees are figuring out that they have ft seniority and have seniority . The grievances have been heard at our local and were moved all the way to arbitration and the ruling was clear . For those who think that you can stick around at UPS as a pt employee for 300 years and be part time , that's cool , but its not our (22.3, 22.2) that you chose to stay pt , especially if you had the chance to go ft. I understand that this might be a pt secondary job, but for what seems to be the majority of dues paying members , fulltime employment is the way of life . In my local , seniority follows as pure fulltime employees (feeder,package car , fueler, shifter,22.2 ) , then 22.3's ( combo's) then part time employees . My hub is in central states (yes I know) , mid south district . I am 100% confident in my statement . Why would anybody believe part time would trump full time , its a life decision .
  14. 8Keys

    8Keys Member

    It's not a life decision. It's a series of independent decisions which shouldn't necessarily affect one another, but do. Maybe someone wants a driving bid but can't or won't load trucks for 9 hours in the middle of the night, so he doesn't sign a certain inside bid. Maybe someone wants to go 22.3 but has no interest in driving or has obligations during the day time. Maybe someone could not qualify or was not pre-qualified for a specific position and thus couldn't win a bid. I don't think it's really fair that these types of things affect a person's ability to win unrelated bids in the future, even when the future may be 15 years later. Full timers should be able to keep their own position, have protection from getting laid off and maintain their 8 hour guarantees, but for other purposes I don't think they should have special privileges. This is typical case of using the contract language to screw the new guys before they know any better, except in this case it also screws anyone who spent a lot of years working part time.
  15. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    Most pt don't bid jobs you are assigned jobs based on needs and your ability. So no case.
  16. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    I agree that supplements will dictate the specifics and no I surely don't know all of them, nor do most people.
  17. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    *jmo* here, but a FT job is a career/livelihood, a PT job is not. Of course a FT employee should have perks that a PT doesn't have, because that person spends at least double the hours at UPS.
  18. RealPerson

    RealPerson Active Member

    Yes, I believe mine is a rare case, as when we started getting 22.3's they were asked how they wanted Seniority to be listed for that shift. Well the FT wanted ONE list, and not 2. This way they could pick all the vacations, instead of running 2 vacation lists one for FT and one for PT, and limiting the number of weeks open to pick from, because PT would be picking also. Well this came back to bite them in the butt, when we went from 18-22 people to just 7-9 people.
    Sucks to have 19 Years and be the only PT sometimes.... HA
  19. part_timer

    part_timer New Member

    Is there any other union shop that has seperate seniority lists? Seniority should be based on your hire date only , not hours worked. Keep it simple. We have a number of 22.3 who choose to work part time hours.
  20. 8Keys

    8Keys Member

    Most part time jobs other than load and unload should be filled by seniority based on preferred position lists. They aren't technically bid jobs, and this may vary with supplement language, but once you have qualified in a preferred position you cannot be transferred out to make room for someone else. But that only goes so far. It's not like they keep a special seniority list for when each person started in small sort etc.