PAS/PAL the Next Generation
- Thread starter LKLND3380
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westsideworma
Guest
1Anyone else heard of the next generation of world ship labels that will have PAS/PAL info printed on it...
I am guessing this will eliminate SPA jobs... Or eliminate the SPA printers since you may still need SPA people for Tracking info...
I hypothesized that they'd do this a while back, I just never thought they'd be smart enough to pull it off or how they'd pull it off. I hope it happens, if I had a dollar for every mis-slap I've found I wouldn't be working for UPS anymore hahaha
GuyinBrown
Blah
I can't see that happening. There is no way they can adjust to the ebb and flow of the volume if the PAL is printed when the shipper prints the label. They can't even forecast the volume correctly as it is. This would only make things 2x as bad. ( Not that that has ever stopped UPS before, but I still don't think that this rumor has much truth to it... )
I am guessing this will eliminate SPA jobs... Or eliminate the SPA printers since you may still need SPA people for Tracking info...
I was wondering when this would happen too. It seemed like a major expense to me to create all these SPA jobs if the original purpose of PAS/EDD was to save money in the first place. When we had PAS implemented in our building almost two years ago, I asked the guy in charge about that. He said at the time it was impossible, because of all variables that effect the time in transit of all the packages. Even if everything ran perfect, there would be major ADD/CUTS at the end of the Preload. Things like NDAs, ASDs, OnCall Ground, and things like that really throw a monkey wrench in what the Preload loads on the Package Cars at start time. It will be another major screwup when its tried.
W
westsideworma
Guest
I was wondering when this would happen too. It seemed like a major expense to me to create all these SPA jobs if the original purpose of PAS/EDD was to save money in the first place. When we had PAS implemented in our building almost two years ago, I asked the guy in charge about that. He said at the time it was impossible, because of all variables that effect the time in transit of all the packages. Even if everything ran perfect, there would be major ADD/CUTS at the end of the Preload. Things like NDAs, ASDs, OnCall Ground, and things like that really throw a monkey wrench in what the Preload loads on the Package Cars at start time. It will be another major screwup when its tried.
what are you talking about? big brown's IE department ideas never fail. Trust me! ever ask them? they'll tell you the system is not at fault whatsoever, the employees just don't know how to use this tool we've given them. Granted a couple of IE people loaded a pull recently (lack of preloaders) and had 5 misloads using this glorious system...apparently they don't know how to use it either
it must be too advanced 
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westsideworma
Guest
you're right channa, I shouldn't be so hard on them. Im sure they've come up with something that really does help. However, PAS is all I've seen them give us since I've worked here (2.5 years). I'm sure even that is great in the centers that have actually taken the time and got it working right (honestly). Its just I can't help but laugh at them when they talk about how helpful it is to preloaders. Any help or increase in efficiency is lost on us seeing as if it really does make us go faster, we were given more to load to compensate thereby eliminating any possible perk that we could enjoy. not to mention made it harder to build a good load since the trucks are now jam packed.
I actually hope they CAN get this revision of PAS working as I do think it'll help matters a lot if they can.
jasar13
Active Member
Good point. things dont always happen in one fell swoop. it sometimes takes years to develop and refine the technology to accomodate our operations.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Can our technology group first focus on getting me a package car that wasn't put into service during the Reagan administration? I'd be more efficient if I had a low-step, automatic, power-steering vehicle like everyone of our competitor's drivers have
I'm just kidding. I know our customers come first and the technology group needs to focus their attention on them.
Still, however, no power steering? The last non-power steering vehicle I was in (I actually never drove one!), that wasn't a UPS vehicle, was my mother's 1967 beige chevy nova! Anybody remember that car?
DS
Fenderbender
People try to put us down
customer has bad vibrations
Just because we dress in brown
talkin pas/pal generation
your box wont reach its destination
go pick it up in thier frustration
cuz its the PAS/PAL generation
I wish they`d all just...friend-friend-friend...fade away
it wont scan to my agitation
the way it was in the olden days
I had none late to my elation
All those late nights that I tolled
I hope I can retire before I get old
customer has bad vibrations
Just because we dress in brown
talkin pas/pal generation
your box wont reach its destination
go pick it up in thier frustration
cuz its the PAS/PAL generation
I wish they`d all just...friend-friend-friend...fade away
it wont scan to my agitation
the way it was in the olden days
I had none late to my elation
All those late nights that I tolled
I hope I can retire before I get old
It wont be over the bar code but maybe under...
You asked about the new SPA jobs costing more or printing PAL info on the worldship label?
This is about printing PAL info on Worldship labels? Time in transit affects what? I would say 90% of the driver's routes are the same streets every day. UNLESS you throw in 8 hour requests, time commit packages and bulk issues that will not fit.
As it is under the current situation there are ADD/CUTS. I have one truck that gets between 20 and 50 pieces moved each day. It's almost at the posint where I don't load some addresses because I know around 6:45 an add/cut sheet will be on the way.
Things like NDAs, ASDs, OnCall Ground, and things like that really throw a monkey wrench in what the Preload loads on the Package Cars at start time. It will be another major screwup when its tried.
Well it would eliminate the amount of no scan packages, flip label and blank labels... Also cut down on paper (LABEL) cost for UPS...
Yesterday while walking through the building, I walked underneath their area and hollered up " STOP PUTTING PAL LABELS OVER BARCODES!!!!" Probably didn't accomplish anything, but felt good......
I don't think WorldShip will be able to print labels accurate enough for an individual package car for some time now.
Right now, WorldShip validates addresses at the city/state/zip level. That's enough to get it to an individual center. In rural areas where certain zip codes only have one driver, that's good enough to get it to a package car, but in cities of any size? forget it.
It IS possible to validate all the way down to a street address, which would be required for matching to a sequence number. Internet Shipping, iShip, and Campusship do this. WorldShip doesn't. my guess is that it either has to do with licensing or space issues.
In the past few years (roughly about the time PAS started coming out) WorldShip allowed address validation at the street level, but it's been a batch rather than a real-time process. WorldShip could automatically check the UPS version of the zipcode database and add the zip+4 on addresses it understood. The user could also manually ask to validate an individual address or addressbook. WorldShip, would bundle up the addresses and send them their system mailbox on the back end and UPS would compare with the database and provide alternate options. But that's only on the address book and only when the user initiates the check. It does not and will not check at time of shipping. WorldShip 9 does add and advertise being able to validate residential/commercial at the time of shipping. There's a button on the shipping tab which will validate that address at time of shipping (I'm sure this also helps get more correctly formatted addresses on the label the first time)
I don't think WorldShip will ever completely enforce valid street-level addresses on our shippers. My reasoning has to do with the inconvenience of trying to process invalid addresses and having to correct. This is most painful for our shippers who print their labels using batch process (this is nice, they have an import of data set up, run it on their orders for the day, and it automatically prints out all the labels) WorldShip already kicks out address that don't meed ZIP level validation and shippers have to manually go back and fix that shipment. that's a small percentage on batch. Think what it would be like if WorldShip is validating street-level info on 100 shipper-supplied address on a batch process. I'd bet most shipments in the batch would have to be manually processed. Customers would be screaming at the Help Desk to turn it off.
But let's say WorldShip is able to validate addresses down to the sequence number. Then every time the drivers convince the centers, convince local IE that sequences need to be updated (new housing developments, etc) those changes would have to be coordinated and scheduled at a corporate level so that WorldShip got the updated sequence information.
Now we come up against two major features of PAS that were selling points. It tells the preloader exactly where on the shelf that package goes based on what is expected for that car. This needs depends on how many packages prior in the sequence will also be loaded on that car. There's no way at time of shipping WorldShip could ever know that detail.
the other major selling point of PAS is the DMS portion. The dispatch supervisor can that morning before packages arrive, adjust the loads in the cars and if one car is heavy while another car is light, move volume to balance things out. Again, this depends on what's going to be in the center that day for delivery. WorldShip could never know this.
I think what WorldShip is doing which newer version of PAS hopefully take advantage of is box dimensions. I think it's be nice on the preload and the drivers, if PAS recognized when boxes were too large/heavy for the shelf and loaded that stop in a better location. The other requirement would be for EDD to tell the driver not just how many packages at his next stop, but where they are in the car.
Right now, WorldShip validates addresses at the city/state/zip level. That's enough to get it to an individual center. In rural areas where certain zip codes only have one driver, that's good enough to get it to a package car, but in cities of any size? forget it.
It IS possible to validate all the way down to a street address, which would be required for matching to a sequence number. Internet Shipping, iShip, and Campusship do this. WorldShip doesn't. my guess is that it either has to do with licensing or space issues.
In the past few years (roughly about the time PAS started coming out) WorldShip allowed address validation at the street level, but it's been a batch rather than a real-time process. WorldShip could automatically check the UPS version of the zipcode database and add the zip+4 on addresses it understood. The user could also manually ask to validate an individual address or addressbook. WorldShip, would bundle up the addresses and send them their system mailbox on the back end and UPS would compare with the database and provide alternate options. But that's only on the address book and only when the user initiates the check. It does not and will not check at time of shipping. WorldShip 9 does add and advertise being able to validate residential/commercial at the time of shipping. There's a button on the shipping tab which will validate that address at time of shipping (I'm sure this also helps get more correctly formatted addresses on the label the first time)
I don't think WorldShip will ever completely enforce valid street-level addresses on our shippers. My reasoning has to do with the inconvenience of trying to process invalid addresses and having to correct. This is most painful for our shippers who print their labels using batch process (this is nice, they have an import of data set up, run it on their orders for the day, and it automatically prints out all the labels) WorldShip already kicks out address that don't meed ZIP level validation and shippers have to manually go back and fix that shipment. that's a small percentage on batch. Think what it would be like if WorldShip is validating street-level info on 100 shipper-supplied address on a batch process. I'd bet most shipments in the batch would have to be manually processed. Customers would be screaming at the Help Desk to turn it off.
But let's say WorldShip is able to validate addresses down to the sequence number. Then every time the drivers convince the centers, convince local IE that sequences need to be updated (new housing developments, etc) those changes would have to be coordinated and scheduled at a corporate level so that WorldShip got the updated sequence information.
Now we come up against two major features of PAS that were selling points. It tells the preloader exactly where on the shelf that package goes based on what is expected for that car. This needs depends on how many packages prior in the sequence will also be loaded on that car. There's no way at time of shipping WorldShip could ever know that detail.
the other major selling point of PAS is the DMS portion. The dispatch supervisor can that morning before packages arrive, adjust the loads in the cars and if one car is heavy while another car is light, move volume to balance things out. Again, this depends on what's going to be in the center that day for delivery. WorldShip could never know this.
I think what WorldShip is doing which newer version of PAS hopefully take advantage of is box dimensions. I think it's be nice on the preload and the drivers, if PAS recognized when boxes were too large/heavy for the shelf and loaded that stop in a better location. The other requirement would be for EDD to tell the driver not just how many packages at his next stop, but where they are in the car.
The biggest point I was trying to make about a new Worldship printing the labels is probably illustrated by this example. A package gets shipped from California to Atlanta and takes about a week to get here by ground. From the time it leaves the West Coast, all air and closer ground packages get mixed into the fray. So by the time that California package gets here, the Dispatch for that day has dramatically changed. The Route and Shelf numbers would probably be incorrect. I noticed that on my route, about a fourth of my deliveries are air packages of some kind.
SPA jobs are so pointless, if a SPA person couldn't see their job becoming obsolete in 5-10 years, then they have major issues.
I am guessing this will eliminate SPA jobs... Or eliminate the SPA printers since you may still need SPA people for Tracking info...
yet again, UPS seems to enjoy paying their employees to do redundant tasks rather than just automate it.
can the PAS label be applied at the time the shipment is tendered? yes
can it be done in our facilities that we outgrew 20 years ago where we need to park package cars 2" apart and run them along spur lines and planks because there's only one belt? hell no.
can it be done for express volume only? definitely.
where's all the honey? express.
upsman415
Active Member
Pas/Pal or Edd is a big mistake. All the suits keep saying its a perfect system. And yes perfect for giving you more work and this system doesnt count apts as seperate stops. And a commercial medical building which is multiple stops the most stops they can give you is 6 stops to 10. So this system is a piece of crap. It will never be perfect.
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