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<blockquote data-quote="brett636" data-source="post: 346992" data-attributes="member: 249"><p>I understand, you cannot defend Obama on these issues because you know they are true. </p><p> </p><p>Its amazing how * like yourself think you can dictate the meaning of the 2nd amendment as one continous sentence, or to try to infer the meaning of the 2nd amendment is a collective or state right. You see, its a simple grammar term known as a compound sentence. The first sentence in this paragraph is a compound sentence where two sentences are joined together by a comma. Being the fool that you are you probably don't understand this. </p><p> </p><p>The 2nd amendment has been mentioned in several Supreme Court rulings. In several of those cases the Court mentions the 2nd amendment as an individual right, and not a collective one. Cases such as Dredscott, Casey v. Planned Parenthood, U.S. v. Cruikshank and others. In fact, in 22 of 27 instances the Supreme court has ruled the 2nd amendment as an individual right, and not a collective one. </p><p> </p><p>Lower courts have also disagreed with you. "We find that the history of the Second Amendment reinforces the plain</p><p>meaning of its text, namely that it protects individual Americans in their right to keep and bear</p><p>arms whether or not they are a member of a select militia or performing active military service or</p><p>training” and “We reject the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for</p><p>interpreting the Second Amendment” This was from U.S. v. Emerson, 5th court of Appeals decision, November 2, 2001, No. 99-10331</p><p> </p><p>Go back and read my quoting of the 2nd amendment, the commas are there. As stated above your argument has no relevance, and I have been following the Heller case closely. Everything I have read on this case has stated the exact opposite of what you just posted. It is expected the Supreme Court will overturn the ban, and assert an individual's right to keep and bear arms. In fact all the Supreme Court justices agreed that the 2nd amendment does apply to an <strong>individual's right</strong> and not a collective one. </p><p> </p><p>Than can you explain to me why all the other rights listed in the Bill of rights are related to the individual, and not the state. To help better explain this idea "The Second Amendment, like the First, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments, refers to a "<strong>right of the people</strong>," <em>not a right of the states</em> or a <em>right of the</em> <em>National Guard</em>. The First Amendment guarantees the people's right to assemble; the Fourth Amendment protects the people's right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures; the Ninth Amendment refers to the people's unenumerated rights. <a href="http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm#1" target="_blank">1</a> These rights are clearly individual -- they protect "the right of the people" by protecting the right of each person. This strongly suggests that the similarly-worded Second Amendment likewise secures an individual right" found <a href="http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm" target="_blank">here</a></p><p> </p><p>Based on your earlier proven capacities to lie on this board I highly doubt you were anywhere near the Supreme Court when arguments were being given. Secondly, everywhere else that I have read other's accounts of what the supreme court heard and said during arguments indicates that it will strike down the D.C. handgun ban. I will wait in great anticipation for the court's final ruling on this matter so incase Obama does become President he understands that our <strong>right</strong> to bear arms cannot be trifled with. You see, people like yourself do not understand that the 2nd amendment is not there so I can go hunting, or even so that I can protect myself from criminals. The 2nd amendment is there so that I can protect myself from a tyrannical government. The founding fathers agree. </p><p> </p><p>“[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over</p><p>the people of almost every other nation...[where] the governments are afraid to trust the</p><p>people with arms.”-James Madison</p><p> </p><p>"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."-Thomas Jefferson</p><p> </p><p>"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that</p><p>their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."-Thomas Jefferson</p><p> </p><p>"The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot</p><p>give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. That</p><p>rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage, is the symbol of</p><p>democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."-George Orwell (not a founding father, but well said non the less)</p><p> </p><p>"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how</p><p>popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.... The right of citizens to</p><p>bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against</p><p>tyranny..."-Herbert Humphrey former U.S. Senator and Vice President of the united states.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="brett636, post: 346992, member: 249"] I understand, you cannot defend Obama on these issues because you know they are true. Its amazing how * like yourself think you can dictate the meaning of the 2nd amendment as one continous sentence, or to try to infer the meaning of the 2nd amendment is a collective or state right. You see, its a simple grammar term known as a compound sentence. The first sentence in this paragraph is a compound sentence where two sentences are joined together by a comma. Being the fool that you are you probably don't understand this. The 2nd amendment has been mentioned in several Supreme Court rulings. In several of those cases the Court mentions the 2nd amendment as an individual right, and not a collective one. Cases such as Dredscott, Casey v. Planned Parenthood, U.S. v. Cruikshank and others. In fact, in 22 of 27 instances the Supreme court has ruled the 2nd amendment as an individual right, and not a collective one. Lower courts have also disagreed with you. "We find that the history of the Second Amendment reinforces the plain meaning of its text, namely that it protects individual Americans in their right to keep and bear arms whether or not they are a member of a select militia or performing active military service or training” and “We reject the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for interpreting the Second Amendment” This was from U.S. v. Emerson, 5th court of Appeals decision, November 2, 2001, No. 99-10331 Go back and read my quoting of the 2nd amendment, the commas are there. As stated above your argument has no relevance, and I have been following the Heller case closely. Everything I have read on this case has stated the exact opposite of what you just posted. It is expected the Supreme Court will overturn the ban, and assert an individual's right to keep and bear arms. In fact all the Supreme Court justices agreed that the 2nd amendment does apply to an [B]individual's right[/B] and not a collective one. Than can you explain to me why all the other rights listed in the Bill of rights are related to the individual, and not the state. To help better explain this idea "The Second Amendment, like the First, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments, refers to a "[B]right of the people[/B]," [I]not a right of the states[/I] or a [I]right of the[/I] [I]National Guard[/I]. The First Amendment guarantees the people's right to assemble; the Fourth Amendment protects the people's right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures; the Ninth Amendment refers to the people's unenumerated rights. [URL="http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm#1"]1[/URL] These rights are clearly individual -- they protect "the right of the people" by protecting the right of each person. This strongly suggests that the similarly-worded Second Amendment likewise secures an individual right" found [URL="http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/testimon.htm"]here[/URL] Based on your earlier proven capacities to lie on this board I highly doubt you were anywhere near the Supreme Court when arguments were being given. Secondly, everywhere else that I have read other's accounts of what the supreme court heard and said during arguments indicates that it will strike down the D.C. handgun ban. I will wait in great anticipation for the court's final ruling on this matter so incase Obama does become President he understands that our [B]right[/B] to bear arms cannot be trifled with. You see, people like yourself do not understand that the 2nd amendment is not there so I can go hunting, or even so that I can protect myself from criminals. The 2nd amendment is there so that I can protect myself from a tyrannical government. The founding fathers agree. “[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...[where] the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”-James Madison "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)."-Thomas Jefferson "What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."-Thomas Jefferson "The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage, is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."-George Orwell (not a founding father, but well said non the less) "Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against tyranny..."-Herbert Humphrey former U.S. Senator and Vice President of the united states. [/QUOTE]
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