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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1034325" data-attributes="member: 2189">As far as partyarchy libertatianism, I agree with your point.&nbsp; However, in the sense of historical libertarianism (which you would be well served to at least know the history without agreeing to it&#039;s conclusions), the idea of implementing libertarianism by the force of the state (eg coupling with republican/conservative politics) seems, hell with that, IS an absolute contradiction to it&#039;s original ideal. In 2005&#039; Keith Preston penned a lengthy but well written historical and yet contrasting view of libertarianism from conservativism entitled,<a href="http://attackthesystem.com/beyond-conservatism-reclaiming-the-radical-roots-of-libertarianism/" target="_blank"> &quot;Beyond Conservativism: Reclaiming the Radical Roots of Libertarianism&quot;</a> which albeit long, is still worth the read if not for nothing else but a historical perspective.&nbsp; To be fair to partyarchy politics, for either party to give ground to a historic libertarian ideal when either party&#039;s purpose is the increase of it&#039;s own compulsory power within the state apparatus,&nbsp; this would be like the christian church giving Satan himself a seat on it&#039;s advisory board.&nbsp;&nbsp; Now if the christian church wants to hijack some of Satan&#039;s ideas as it&#039;s own for political ends, then maybe....you get the point.At the same time, the partyarchy left hates the historic libertarian (and rightly so from that POV) because this historic libertarian eg left ideal firmly points the accusatory finger at left partyarchy and clearly identifies it&#039;s own contradictions, false claims and in fact shows it to be of the same mold as it&#039;s &quot;conservative&quot; twin brother.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is why the claim is made, &quot;2 wings of the same bird of prey!&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is also why nothing gets fixed or solved because solutions are completion and completion means the bureaucracy has no more job purpose and therefore it&#039;s existence should be terminated.&nbsp; But termination defangs the state and lessens dependency by the masses.&nbsp; It&#039;s the same reason Chancellor Sutler in the film &quot;V for Vendetta&quot; in his famous rant screamed,&nbsp; &quot;THEY NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY NEED US!&quot;&nbsp; Solving the problem shifts the need of power&nbsp; which then no longer resides at the top but returns to it&#039;s proper place with the people themselves.&nbsp; Individualism as well as localism is thus restored and protected.&nbsp; &nbsp; The incentive with the state regardless of which party is majority is creation of fear through crisis, molding public opinion so the crisis is only solved at the highest levels, thus the public is conditioned to need and accept statist topdown hierarchy.&nbsp; The public goes about accepting problem is handled by the technocracy and even defending the state and technocracy against any encroachment in the circles of public opinion.&nbsp; Never understand that the <a href="http://c4ss.org/content/13061" target="_blank">State&#039;s protective hand is purely myth</a>.The irony is the defense of state comes equally strong from both political sides which in itself is telling of the lie that they&#039;ve come to believe.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1034325, member: 2189"] As far as partyarchy libertatianism, I agree with your point. However, in the sense of historical libertarianism (which you would be well served to at least know the history without agreeing to it's conclusions), the idea of implementing libertarianism by the force of the state (eg coupling with republican/conservative politics) seems, hell with that, IS an absolute contradiction to it's original ideal. In 2005' Keith Preston penned a lengthy but well written historical and yet contrasting view of libertarianism from conservativism entitled,[URL="http://attackthesystem.com/beyond-conservatism-reclaiming-the-radical-roots-of-libertarianism/"][COLOR=#ff0000] "Beyond Conservativism: Reclaiming the Radical Roots of Libertarianism"[/COLOR][/URL] which albeit long, is still worth the read if not for nothing else but a historical perspective. To be fair to partyarchy politics, for either party to give ground to a historic libertarian ideal when either party's purpose is the increase of it's own compulsory power within the state apparatus, this would be like the christian church giving Satan himself a seat on it's advisory board. Now if the christian church wants to hijack some of Satan's ideas as it's own for political ends, then maybe....you get the point. At the same time, the partyarchy left hates the historic libertarian (and rightly so from that POV) because this historic libertarian eg left ideal firmly points the accusatory finger at left partyarchy and clearly identifies it's own contradictions, false claims and in fact shows it to be of the same mold as it's "conservative" twin brother. It is why the claim is made, "2 wings of the same bird of prey!" It is also why nothing gets fixed or solved because solutions are completion and completion means the bureaucracy has no more job purpose and therefore it's existence should be terminated. But termination defangs the state and lessens dependency by the masses. It's the same reason Chancellor Sutler in the film "V for Vendetta" in his famous rant screamed, "THEY NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY NEED US!" Solving the problem shifts the need of power which then no longer resides at the top but returns to it's proper place with the people themselves. Individualism as well as localism is thus restored and protected. The incentive with the state regardless of which party is majority is creation of fear through crisis, molding public opinion so the crisis is only solved at the highest levels, thus the public is conditioned to need and accept statist topdown hierarchy. The public goes about accepting problem is handled by the technocracy and even defending the state and technocracy against any encroachment in the circles of public opinion. Never understand that the [URL="http://c4ss.org/content/13061"][COLOR=#ff0000]State's protective hand is purely myth[/COLOR][/URL]. The irony is the defense of state comes equally strong from both political sides which in itself is telling of the lie that they've come to believe. [/QUOTE]

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