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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1156839" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>The same terms and conditions under Bush also exist under Obama. nothing on that account has changed. That said, if the spying was warrantless under Bush then under the same terms and conditions so to is it under Obama. That, or Obama was lying. Pick your poison.</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink2:" title="Wink :wink2:" data-shortname=":wink2:" /></p><p></p><p>Obama also said that the era of Bush and Cheney will end. You claim the so-called C-9ers deny the truth and only consider material to confirm their bias. I would argue that you are doing the very same thing. There are boatloads of great material even on the left that more than confirms that Obama is just Bush 3 and some even go so far as to say it's Bush on steroids. Many of the source links I post are in fact from self avowed left wing/progressive sources which even advocated for Obama. Just like under Bush, only the most blind and unthinking partiarches are unable to see what is taking place before their own eyes. I'll grant you a lot of the critique here against Obama is just mindless BS and the same critique could be turned back in the opposite direction and be just as valid. That said however, the Bush era has not ended so again Obama lied.</p><p></p><p>The only difference between the Bush era and the Obama era are the talking points and the narrative created. The political spin that the masses soak up so they can continue their illusions creates the appearance of difference. Yet on the ground in both policy and real action, the outcomes are all but the same. The crushing of the Occupy encampments across the land spearheaded by the Obama administration (see <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/07/1095420/-FOIA-Revelations-Show-Administration-Role-In-Occupy-Crackdown" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">DailyKos </span></a>and <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/14/did-the-white-house-direct-the-police-crackdown-on-occupy/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Countepunch </span></a>for examples) should be proof alone but the evidence is in volumes to the point that even liberal icon Chris Hedges not only calls out Obama but sued him in court over NDAA. Go to Black Agenda Report and read Glen Ford or my own fellow hometowner in Bruce A. Dixon who routinely calls down Obama for his Bushlike actions. </p><p></p><p>Even voices in the African American community are starting to speak up in saying even George Bush would never have taken war into the heart of Africa like Obama has with the military's Africom which now has some footprint in 53 African nations meaning all of Africa but Egypt. And the <a href="http://www.africacheck.org/reports/how-many-countries-in-africa-how-hard-can-the-question-be/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">number of African nations</span></a> can be a moving target. Of course we'll say we're bringing roses but in time they'll learn the hard way it's nothing but poison weeds that spreads like Kudzu! Funny what having the appearance of a Black President can do in advancing Anglo-American hegemony. HmmmmMMMM?</p><p></p><p>One of the favorite issues of democrats is fear of privatization and some of that critique has merit. Yet the privatization of the war on terror has in fact grown under Obama and yet I hear so little condemnation from the democrat partiarches over this affront. And speaking of privatization, a recent piece by Robert Scheer over at Truthdig, (both having solid liberal street cred) calls into question the current use of private companies to gather data in what he titled, <a href="http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror_con_20130618/" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">"The Terror Con"</span></a>. Oh looky, The Carlyle Group, another Bush family venture. So why has Obama not shut this down if the days of Cheney and Bush are over?</p><p></p><p>Divorce yourself from partiarchy and it's so much easier to see. It's just 2 wings of the same bird of prey!</p><p></p><p>And yes, I DO NOT SEE ANY REAL DIFFERENCE between Obama and Bush because I look at outcomes and policy advancements over time and not words and rhetoric of the moment.</p><p></p><p>TOS, stay on the porch with your C-9ers cause you ain't ready to run with the big dogs!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1156839, member: 2189"] The same terms and conditions under Bush also exist under Obama. nothing on that account has changed. That said, if the spying was warrantless under Bush then under the same terms and conditions so to is it under Obama. That, or Obama was lying. Pick your poison. :wink2: Obama also said that the era of Bush and Cheney will end. You claim the so-called C-9ers deny the truth and only consider material to confirm their bias. I would argue that you are doing the very same thing. There are boatloads of great material even on the left that more than confirms that Obama is just Bush 3 and some even go so far as to say it's Bush on steroids. Many of the source links I post are in fact from self avowed left wing/progressive sources which even advocated for Obama. Just like under Bush, only the most blind and unthinking partiarches are unable to see what is taking place before their own eyes. I'll grant you a lot of the critique here against Obama is just mindless BS and the same critique could be turned back in the opposite direction and be just as valid. That said however, the Bush era has not ended so again Obama lied. The only difference between the Bush era and the Obama era are the talking points and the narrative created. The political spin that the masses soak up so they can continue their illusions creates the appearance of difference. Yet on the ground in both policy and real action, the outcomes are all but the same. The crushing of the Occupy encampments across the land spearheaded by the Obama administration (see [URL="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/07/1095420/-FOIA-Revelations-Show-Administration-Role-In-Occupy-Crackdown"][COLOR=#ff0000]DailyKos [/COLOR][/URL]and [URL="http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/14/did-the-white-house-direct-the-police-crackdown-on-occupy/"][COLOR=#ff0000]Countepunch [/COLOR][/URL]for examples) should be proof alone but the evidence is in volumes to the point that even liberal icon Chris Hedges not only calls out Obama but sued him in court over NDAA. Go to Black Agenda Report and read Glen Ford or my own fellow hometowner in Bruce A. Dixon who routinely calls down Obama for his Bushlike actions. Even voices in the African American community are starting to speak up in saying even George Bush would never have taken war into the heart of Africa like Obama has with the military's Africom which now has some footprint in 53 African nations meaning all of Africa but Egypt. And the [URL="http://www.africacheck.org/reports/how-many-countries-in-africa-how-hard-can-the-question-be/"][COLOR=#ff0000]number of African nations[/COLOR][/URL] can be a moving target. Of course we'll say we're bringing roses but in time they'll learn the hard way it's nothing but poison weeds that spreads like Kudzu! Funny what having the appearance of a Black President can do in advancing Anglo-American hegemony. HmmmmMMMM? One of the favorite issues of democrats is fear of privatization and some of that critique has merit. Yet the privatization of the war on terror has in fact grown under Obama and yet I hear so little condemnation from the democrat partiarches over this affront. And speaking of privatization, a recent piece by Robert Scheer over at Truthdig, (both having solid liberal street cred) calls into question the current use of private companies to gather data in what he titled, [URL="http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_terror_con_20130618/"][COLOR=#ff0000]"The Terror Con"[/COLOR][/URL]. Oh looky, The Carlyle Group, another Bush family venture. So why has Obama not shut this down if the days of Cheney and Bush are over? Divorce yourself from partiarchy and it's so much easier to see. It's just 2 wings of the same bird of prey! And yes, I DO NOT SEE ANY REAL DIFFERENCE between Obama and Bush because I look at outcomes and policy advancements over time and not words and rhetoric of the moment. TOS, stay on the porch with your C-9ers cause you ain't ready to run with the big dogs! :peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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