Quick Question - Supervisor Recycling Missed Packages and Missorts

[jibbs]

Hey guys, this is a li'l long so tl;dr - scroll to the final bold paragraph at the bottom:

So with the introduction of scanners and new loaders and new methods and new managers people are missing a lot of packages. I'm on the end of the belt so it effects me, but I still manage to keep it mostly clean (emphasis on "mostly.") Anyways, since the methods have started pretty much everybody on the belt misses a package every 3 or 4 minutes, sometimes stacks of packages.

It was my understanding that a union member should be directed to recycle those missed packages and missorted packages (wrong belt), and that management/supervisors were not to progress a package from it's arrival at UPS to it's final destination at it's delivery address, with the only exception I know of being the very broad "Act of God" clause.

Anyways, a supervisor was doing this today. I was at my wit's end already (rougher day than usual) and asked him why he was doing what he was doing. I honestly forget how exactly the conversation started, but this is how it ended:


Argument with supervisor about him doing bargaining unit (union) work despite management being non-union. Transcript starts mid-conversation because I don't remember the beginning of it very well:

Me: Non-union employees are not allowed to progress the package from it's arrival to it's final destination, from beginning to end of it's travels through our system.

Supervisor: And once it's in the truck it's at the final destination.

Me: ...No, the final destination is the delivery address, which a union member is supposed to deliver after a union member loads it onto the truck. At no point should you be touching packages barring an act of God, and that's nearly exactly what the contract says.

Supervisor: [throws package on the ground] So that's at it's final destination, right? Now I can touch it? [Proceeds to pick the package up and load it]

Me: ...No, man, that's the part that goes in between "beginning" and "end," which we call "the middle" and is inherently implied with the phrase "from beginning to end." You know what the middle IS, right? What do you not get about "final destination?" It's the delivery address; it's not where we load it in the truck. That's why there's "Final" in the phrase, because it's at the end of it's transit.

Supervisor: You don't know everything, [name removed], I'm allowed to do this.

/end conversation, beginning of rage-work

So now I'm at home, right, looking up the language and lo' and behold this dude was 100% in the wrong. Planning on printing this out along with the relevant sections of the contract and bringing it in Monday to file, because he really should've chosen a more complacent person to talk down to:

page 9, specifically

http://www.teamsterslocal804.org/docman/steward-forms/7-2014-ups-stewards-guide/file


[tl;dr]

I'm mainly trying to go in Monday super confident that I'm in the right, and was hoping someone here could better explain when a supervisor is allowed to break contract and move packages to and into their assigned trucks and when they're NOT allowed to. I was under the impression that the only time they should have hands on packages is when we're short-staffed and they've already exhausted every reasonable means to try and get union members from other shifts/positions to come in and do preload.

 

[scratch]

He was doing bargaining unit work outside of the peak season/emergency conditions exceptions.

 

[burrheadd]

Even the TLDR version is to long

 

[oldngray]

Even the TLDR version is too long

 

[Brownslave688]

You're conversing way too much with management.


Me: you need some help with that?


Sup: no

Me: ok I'll be filing a sups working greivance.

End of conversation.

 

[jibbs]

He was doing bargaining unit work outside of the peak season/emergency conditions exceptions.

That's how I viewed it as well, thanks. I just wanted a little confidence boost on this one because his ignorance was really starting to make me doubt my confidence with regard to my understanding of the contract.

Even the TLDR version is to long

....You know it's only two sentences, right? I understand that with the emboldened font it looks really intimidating to those who can't read good and want to do other stuff good, too, but it's actually fairly short compared to the rest of the post. It's cool, though, I understand how a lot of words can confuse a guy and just make him turn his brain off.

You're conversing way too much with management.


Me: you need some help with that?


Sup: no

Me: ok I'll be filing a sups working greivance.

End of conversation.

Yeah, I'll agree with you. I was trying to explain the wording to him and he just didn't seem to understand... I made the mistake of assuming intelligence in a PT supervisor-- won't do that again.

Thanks.

 

[PT Car Washer]

At my building the Union allows sups to work up to 15 minutes at a time. Over 15 minutes and you can file to get paid for the sup working at double your inside rate. Under 15 minutes and you can only file on a sup working and the company will agree not to ever do it again.

 

[jibbs]

At my building the Union allows sups to work up to 15 minutes at a time. Over 15 minutes and you can file to get paid for the sup working at double your inside rate. Under 15 minutes and you can only file on a sup working and the company will agree not to ever do it again.

This dude was recycling for 3 out of the ~5.5 hours I got in today.

As I said, these new methods are leading to failure and everybody misses at least one package every few minutes.

I understand they have to be cleaned up, but I'm also under the impression that cleaning up the belt is union work and they need to direct a union member to do it instead of handling it themselves and stealing pay from their hourly workers.




[EDIT: Thanks for your input everybody, even the less-than-helpful ones. I got what I think I needed out of this thread so I won't be paying much attention to it, but if anyone's got anything to add I'll try and respond whenever I see it.]

 

[km3]

At my building the Union allows sups to work up to 15 minutes at a time. Over 15 minutes and you can file to get paid for the sup working at double your inside rate. Under 15 minutes and you can only file on a sup working and the company will agree not to ever do it again.

Holy crap dude. Based on this and some of your other past posts, it sounds like the NLRB needs to be in your local. I would be furious if my local rolled over like yours does.

 

[jibbs]

[EDIT: Didn't realize you were talking to PT Car Washer. THAT situation is crazy. I haven't been able to find a local rider or supplement or anything for my area so I think we're basically just covered by the national contract, but that would piss me off if they were allowed to do that with just a slap on the wrist every time.]

Yeah, bro, we haven't had a preload steward since 2013.

The union only gets involved when a preloader goes out of his way to find a steward off of his or her shift, or when we're lucky enough to catch a feeder driver that doubles as a steward around 6-7am. There are a few package drivers that are stewards and I've got a, from my perspective, pretty decent working relationship with the ones I know. They're my go-to guys when I've got an issue and I'm also lucky enough to load one of the driver/steward's truck, so I keep him up to date on pretty much everything that goes on as long as he shows up to his truck before I'm clean and clocked out. He's always willing to give me grievance forms but he also does his best to cool me off and rationalize the situation, because normally I'm pretty irritated by the end of the day.

I do my best to try and stay active with it but it gets really tiring telling new people the same shlt over and over and over again with the turnover rate my building has. I basically don't consider anybody a co-worker until they've been there for at least a week, because they're usually gone after a day or two.

 

[km3]

because normally I'm pretty irritated by the end of the day.

It's just cardboard. Don't let it get to you.

but it gets really tiring telling new people the same shlt over and over and over again with the turnover rate my building has. I basically don't consider anybody a co-worker until they've been there for at least a week, because they're usually gone after a day or two.

I hear you there. I don't think I can remember the last time a new hire stayed on for more than a week or two after probation. And most quit within the first two weeks of probation, depending on their job and shift.

 

[jibbs]

It's just cardboard. Don't let it get to you.

It's really not the cardboard that's getting to me, it's the inane micromanagement by a management team who, on the whole, don't seem to know themselves how the new systems they've implemented work and yet expect us to troubleshoot every time something goes wrong, which is multiple times a day.

It's the contradictory directions from one PT supe to another, and then something different from the preload supe, and then something different when the building manager comes in, and then something different when the drivers come in and their supe' starts rollin' around in' with preloaders.

There's no clear line of communication and it's every man for themselves, yet they expect us to follow every new contradictory and/or redundant method they come up with to make the job more complex than it actually is.



I miss the days when I could just load the truck, not have misloads and feel good at the end of the day because it's a sweet workout when you're unencumbered by the slowness of the scanners. Now it's constant anxiety, for real (not just because of scanning, mainly because of management), but that's more of a my problem than it is a your problem type of deal.

 

[km3]

Now it's constant anxiety, for real, but that's more of a my problem than it is a your problem type of deal.

Work as directed. Do your job and let it be their problem, not yours.

 

[jibbs]

That's been my mantra, lol. I just add on the little extra that if their directions lead me to failure, it's their responsibility and not mine.

That normally ends the conversation because I don't typically resort to those lines until it's completely obvious that they're screwing my pull over on any given day. Occasionally it leads to an awesome verbal spar, kind of like what happened this morning that I mentioned in the OP.

 

[OrionsBitch]

Hey guys, this is a li'l long so tl;dr - scroll to the final bold paragraph at the bottom:

So with the introduction of scanners and new loaders and new methods and new managers people are missing a lot of packages. I'm on the end of the belt so it effects me, but I still manage to keep it mostly clean (emphasis on "mostly.") Anyways, since the methods have started pretty much everybody on the belt misses a package every 3 or 4 minutes, sometimes stacks of packages.

It was my understanding that a union member should be directed to recycle those missed packages and missorted packages (wrong belt), and that management/supervisors were not to progress a package from it's arrival at UPS to it's final destination at it's delivery address, with the only exception I know of being the very broad "Act of God" clause.

Anyways, a supervisor was doing this today. I was at my wit's end already (rougher day than usual) and asked him why he was doing what he was doing. I honestly forget how exactly the conversation started, but this is how it ended:


Argument with supervisor about him doing bargaining unit (union) work despite management being non-union. Transcript starts mid-conversation because I don't remember the beginning of it very well:

Me: Non-union employees are not allowed to progress the package from it's arrival to it's final destination, from beginning to end of it's travels through our system.

Supervisor: And once it's in the truck it's at the final destination.

Me: ...No, the final destination is the delivery address, which a union member is supposed to deliver after a union member loads it onto the truck. At no point should you be touching packages barring an act of God, and that's nearly exactly what the contract says.

Supervisor: [throws package on the ground] So that's at it's final destination, right? Now I can touch it? [Proceeds to pick the package up and load it]

Me: ...No, man, that's the part that goes in between "beginning" and "end," which we call "the middle" and is inherently implied with the phrase "from beginning to end." You know what the middle IS, right? What do you not get about "final destination?" It's the delivery address; it's not where we load it in the truck. That's why there's "Final" in the phrase, because it's at the end of it's transit.

Supervisor: You don't know everything, [name removed], I'm allowed to do this.

/end conversation, beginning of rage-work

So now I'm at home, right, looking up the language and lo' and behold this dude was 100% in the wrong. Planning on printing this out along with the relevant sections of the contract and bringing it in Monday to file, because he really should've chosen a more complacent person to talk down to:

page 9, specifically

http://www.teamsterslocal804.org/docman/steward-forms/7-2014-ups-stewards-guide/file


[tl;dr]

I'm mainly trying to go in Monday super confident that I'm in the right, and was hoping someone here could better explain when a supervisor is allowed to break contract and move packages to and into their assigned trucks and when they're NOT allowed to. I was under the impression that the only time they should have hands on packages is when we're short-staffed and they've already exhausted every reasonable means to try and get union members from other shifts/positions to come in and do preload.

This scanning thing is a nightmare....Sucks for the drivers. 4 times this week I've had to load 3/4 of a thousand cube and then run straight air because they are over working the loaders who can't scan and get it done on time. Idc who loads it as long as it isn't me. If the loader wants to stay then they should be allowed.

 

[jibbs]

This scanning thing is a nightmare....Sucks for the drivers. 4 times this week I've had to load 3/4 of a thousand cube and then run straight air because they are over working the loaders who can't scan and get it done on time. Idc who loads it as long as it isn't me. If the loader wants to stay then they should be allowed.

Brother, I feel you. I'm seriously not tooting my own horn but I do my damndest to load every single box on the truck, and only leave out giant ones that're impossible to load without blocking the walkway. I only do that so the drivers can walk in initially and look around and sort however they feel before they have no room to move in most of the truck-- which rarely happens because my tetris game is on-point but occasionally dispatch likes to come in hungover or some shlt.

I'm also one of the few that won't leave when they say "You can go home, your drivers are here." My job's not done, man, doesn't matter if drivers are being paid or not, so depending on how I'm feeling I tell them to clarify if they're asking or telling me and I'm usually able to stay on the clock and finish up. If it gets to that point, though, I'm normally just helpin' a driver get his irregs where he wants 'em and throwing in all those postal bags.

I can't stand it when they send people home early (every day) and have a supervisor take over their pull only to stack out and have the driver finish it up. It's the preloader's choice but , man, let me do it because I want that money, too. If time's a problem then just start the preload earlier, it's not rocket appliances.

 

[OrionsBitch]

Brother, I feel you. I'm seriously not tooting my own horn but I do my damndest to load every single box on the truck, and only leave out giant ones that're impossible to load without blocking the walkway. I only do that so the drivers can walk in initially and look around and sort however they feel before they have no room to move in most of the truck.

I'm also one of the few that won't leave when they say "You can go home, your drivers are here." My job's not done, man, doesn't matter if drivers are being paid or not, so depending on how I'm feeling I tell them to clarify if they're asking or telling me and I'm usually able to stay on the clock and finish up. If it gets to that point, though, I'm normally just helpin' a driver get his irregs where he wants 'em and throwing in all those postal bags.

I can't stand it when they send people home early (every day) and have a supervisor take over their pull only to stack out and have the driver finish it up. It's the preloader's choice but , man, let me do it because I want that money, too.

I am in no way critisizing the loaders. They screwed you guys with yet another tech advancement that reduces performance.

 

[jibbs]

Hell yeah they did, but in all fairness there are most definitely loaders that could use a little constructive criticism. Me included, actually, if I'm going to be expected to follow every single method they've rolled out and will probably continue to do so.

Instead, preloaders are just yelled at until they quit.

 

[km3]

Instead, preloaders are just yelled at until they quit.

Ah...wouldn't it be funny if UPS inadvertently raised the market wage for these jobs by chasing everyone away? Although if you ask me, the contractual rate was already below the market rate. People wouldn't even bother if there wasn't a chance to go driving or get insurance.

 

[jibbs]

Those are literally the only two things that make the job worth it anymore, and they make the new guys wait so long for benefits to kick it that it's literally not worth the stress and hassle unless they can get a FT gig almost immediately.

Granted, it's had it's ups and downs over the past few years but I really need to get into driving or just find a different career prospect because with the recent preload supe/manager/whatever they brought in things have gotten absolutely horrible, and I wouldn't've described them as good beforehand, either.