Retirement

[Cezanne]

My retirement is from the UPS/Teamsters plan. I get a check from them for my nearly 23 years as a driver, I receive another check from UPS for my 3.5 years as a non-union part timer. If I had been a union PTer those 3.5 years would have been added to my 22+ at a 1/2 basis.

Trplnkl, do you actually get any monetary benefit for those years under the UPS Retirement Plan as a NON-Union part timer? I believe that there is a 5 year vesting clause and let us not forget about obtaining the age of 21 in order to start the vesting time.

Another question is the 6 to 3 percent penality per year before age 65 that the company loves to apply for any pension plan they have control over. Does it apply to your part time years, your Central States years and this new IBT/UPS pension plan?

 

[trplnkl]

Trplnkl, do you actually get any monetary benefit for those years under the UPS Retirement Plan as a NON-Union part timer? I believe that there is a 5 year vesting clause and let us not forget about obtaining the age of 21 in order to start the vesting time.

Another question is the 6 to 3 percent penality per year before age 65 that the company loves to apply for any pension plan they have control over. Does it apply to your part time years, your Central States years and this new IBT/UPS pension plan?

I don't know about all that, just that I get a small check advice from UPS Retirement Plan that only has the UPS logo at the top. The other, larger, one has the UPS and Teamster logos.
I was well over 21 when I started at UPS, but I'm not 65 yet. The smaller check may have been more if I were 65, but there is not math showing that on any documents I have from them,IDK.
The aren't live checks, but direct deposit...but yes the smaller one is real money in the bank.

 

[brownmonster]

This is why I skipped Part-Time and went straight into Driving. Didn't want to deal with this issue 30 years later.

 

[Cezanne]

This is why I skipped Part-Time and went straight into Driving. Didn't want to deal with this issue 30 years later.

Let us say you are one of the lucky ones. Most of us hired in the 70's and 80's were hired in as part timers, paid our dues, got some whiskers and jumped on the first full-time bid eligible. It took an average of 8 to 10 years for most of us to get that opportunity, I am guessing that 80 percent of the future retirees under this new UPS/IBT pension plan have part time vested time in the UPS Pension Plan. The pension formula as of now is designed to help any member who had alot of time under the old Central States trust. Your vesting time is protected by federal law (ERISA) but your benefit level (monthly retirement check) is the real question. So as that old Eagle's song (Hotel California) lyric line says "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave" holds alot of truth for most of us.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Let us say you are one of the lucky ones. Most of us hired in the 70's and 80's were hired in as part timers, paid our dues, got some whiskers and jumped on the first full-time bid eligible. It took an average of 8 to 10 years for most of us to get that opportunity, I am guessing that 80 percent of the future retirees under this new UPS/IBT pension plan have part time vested time in the UPS Pension Plan. The pension formula as of now is designed to help any member who had alot of time under the old Central States trust. Your vesting time is protected by federal law (ERISA) but your benefit level (monthly retirement check) is the real question. So as that old Eagle's song (Hotel California) lyric line says "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave" holds alot of truth for most of us.

And then throw 29 years of management on top of being a part-time and full time Teamster! It really gets crazy! You could end up with two different pension checks to meet your final pension. Management does not get a double dip. The company will take away anything you put in as a Teamster. For example, As a management retiree, (to keep this simple), your total is 2000 a month but you earned 500 a month as a Teamster, UPS will only give you 1500 a month and you have to collect the other 500 a month from the Teamsters.

When I started back in the 70's, you were not vested until 10 years, I had accumulated 6.5 as a Teamster (with PT & FT hours) so UPS had to pay the whole pension cost and I got nothing from the union, It benefited me because I was grandfathered and all my time counted towards my company pension.

Simple answer for Teamsters is Sobers post #5. Unfortunately retirement formulas - hours and years are not really simple. You need to get with HR and the Teamsters six months before you retire. Same if you are in management. If you can get each year's number of hours you worked, it may save you some heart ache later and show proof of time worked.

Cezanne's answer above is the long answer for most. I can tell you this for sure.... It is a real pain in the arse no matter who you are!

 

[PT Stewie]

I probably wasn't clear. The $55 a month per year of part time service is from the company. It's completely separate from the pension we get from the union for which you will get no credit for your part time years.

In our area the pt pension is separate from full time. It is fully administered by the company as mandated by the National Agreement it is $55.00 per month X years service through 2008 and $60.00 per month X years service for 2009 and beyond.To get a full credit you need to work 750 hrs per calender year and have a mandatory vesting of 5 years worked PT.

 

[tardus]

Be aware that this p/t pension formula cited by PT Stewie applies to those retiring at age 65! The 25, 30 and 35 service pension benefits have no "bump up" between those years if you are under age 65. For example, if you are age 55 and retire with 34-1/2 years of service, you receive only the 30 year service benefit ($55X30).

If you are currently a full time employee and also have vested part-time years, I would strongly encourage you to write to the corp. retirement office in Atlanta and request a copy of all "Reciprocity Agreements" between the Union and Company pension plans. Hopefully, this should take the guesswork out of the computations. If anyone gets a copy of the Reciprocity Agreements, maybe you could please post the agreements on this forum.

 

[Cezanne]

Be aware that this p/t pension formula cited by PT Stewie applies to those retiring at age 65! The 25, 30 and 35 service pension benefits have no "bump up" between those years if you are under age 65. For example, if you are age 55 and retire with 34-1/2 years of service, you receive only the 30 year service benefit ($55X30).

If you are currently a full time employee and also have vested part-time years, I would strongly encourage you to write to the corp. retirement office in Atlanta and request a copy of all "Reciprocity Agreements" between the Union and Company pension plans. Hopefully, this should take the guesswork out of the computations. If anyone gets a copy of the Reciprocity Agreements, maybe you could please post the agreements on this forum.

Tardus, are you suggesting that the 25, 30 and 35 year part time pension benefit quoted in the Master Lanuage of our contract is subject to a 6 percent or 3 percent penality per year prior to age 65. For anybody not familar with what that means with the standard retirement age of 55, your monthly pension total would be reduced 30 or 60 percent. Also remember there is a standard spousal reduction according to the age of your wife or husband.

 

[tardus]

Cezanne, I found out the hard way on this: I planned to retire at age 55 with 33 years of service. (You don't receive the health care if you retire before age 55.) To my astonishment, you can receive the service benefit retirement for 25, 30, or 35 years of service at any age, but if you want to retire with other years of service (in between those years) the reductions that you mention apply. In my case, with 33 years of service they gave me the choice of receiving the 30 year service benefit or a 33 year pension with the entire 33 years reduced by 6% per year for every year under age 65. The result is that if you retire under the age of 65, there is no "bump" up in the retirement benefit for the years in between 30 and 35 years of service. If you are under age 65 and retire with 34-1/2 years of service, you will still receive only the 30 year service pension benefit.

Also the increase to $60 per month per year of service, included in the last contract, does not apply if you are under age 65 and applying for one of the service benefit retirements for 25, 30 or 35 years of service.

There is so much confusion on the issue that I made a written request to the UPS Retirement Dept. in Atlanta for a copy of the Teamsters/UPS pension "Reciprocity Agreements". Although the agreements exist in writing, they refused to give them to me because I have no full time years to reciprocate. I would strongly urge someone on this forum to request these agreements from the UPS Atlanta Retirement Department so that we can see whether these agreements also depend upon you being age 65 at retirement to receive the full benefit.

 

[Cezanne]

Cezanne, I found out the hard way on this: I planned to retire at age 55 with 33 years of service. (You don't receive the health care if you retire before age 55.) To my astonishment, you can receive the service benefit retirement for 25, 30, or 35 years of service at any age, but if you want to retire with other years of service (in between those years) the reductions that you mention apply. In my case, with 33 years of service they gave me the choice of receiving the 30 year service benefit or a 33 year pension with the entire 33 years reduced by 6% per year for every year under age 65. The result is that if you retire under the age of 65, there is no "bump" up in the retirement benefit for the years in between 30 and 35 years of service. If you are under age 65 and retire with 34-1/2 years of service, you will still receive only the 30 year service pension benefit.

Also the increase to $60 per month per year of service, included in the last contract, does not apply if you are under age 65 and applying for one of the service benefit retirements for 25, 30 or 35 years of service.

There is so much confusion on the issue that I made a written request to the UPS Retirement Dept. in Atlanta for a copy of the Teamsters/UPS pension "Reciprocity Agreements". Although the agreements exist in writing, they refused to give them to me because I have no full time years to reciprocate. I would strongly urge someone on this forum to request these agreements from the UPS Atlanta Retirement Department so that we can see whether these agreements also depend upon you being age 65 at retirement to receive the full benefit.

I hate to be critical about this issue, but one would think that those loopholes on ALL our pension benefits would of been settled with this last contract, especially with this new and improved IBT/UPS Pension plan going into effect. If anybody who ever tried to get any information about their pension benefits can testify it is next to impossible to get anything in concrete writing. Test my theory everybody who is eligible for retirement benefits send a letter to both Washington and Atlanta asking for pension estimates, or better yet any legal documents concerning your pension and or health and welfare benefits, active or retiree status. It is stonewalling at it's best, just what are these trustees hiding considering our rights under the ERISA act. Sure it is very complicated, so many pension plans and formulas, but it is your money they are controlling, there should be accountability somewhere. The most frustrating part about these collectively bargaining pension and or health and welfare plans whether they be under company or union control is that they are funded through negotiated monetary increases per master contract language article 34. Why then does one group of members get 6,000 a month pension benefits, some 3,000 and believe it not some 1,500 with the same amount of service time. Something is rotten in demark, if you get my drift.

From my limited understanding the "Reciprocity Agreement" in this new UBT/UPS Pension plan that combines your part time years with your full time years is based on when you left the UPS Pension Plan for part timers and started out under the Central States trust. It is based on a percentage of standard 30 year benefits, for example if you worked 20 years as a part timer it would be 2/3 of a 30 year benefit when you left the plan. For example 2/3 of 1,000 comes out to about 750, the problem is as quoted by Tardus, that 6 percent per year reduction before age 65, which in effects kicks that 750 down to about 400 dollars a month at retirement age of 55. It is not based on 55 dollars per part time service year as most members believe, that is only for active part time pensioners. Those part time totals are then added to your full time years which actually pay as 100 dollars a service year in my area, whether this new IBT/UPS Pension plan has that early retirement penality is not clear. So to make a long story short, our 20 year part time and 10 year full time future pensioner would be looking at around 1,400 dollars a month with 30 service years and retiring at age 55. If they decide to retire earlier before age 55 even with 30 years in that total would be reduced according.

 

[tardus]

Thank you, Cezanne, for your thoughtful response. Please remember that these pension plans are administered under federal law, so there are certain requirements that the pension plans must fulfill.

By federal law, the pension plans must send you a copy of the complete pension plan but may charge you for copying expenses. (I received a complete copy of the Part Time Pension that was about an inch thick -- it was a real eye opener.)

By federal law, you have a right once a year to submit two possible retirement dates to your pension plan, and the pension plan must tell you the amount of pension that you would be eligible on those two dates.