Right or Left --All American's add to this list------Loss of freedoms. Danger !!!

[island1fox]

1. The government has the power to hold and detain any citizen without charges for any duration

2. The government can assinate an Americam Citizen.

3. The government can take your home or business if they decide to do so.

4. The government will force you to buy healthcare or face fine and possible imprisonment.

5. The government will tell any Religion that they have the power to superceed any religious belief.

6. To fly you must walk through a vivid xray machine or be subject to a full body search.

 

[The Other Side]

So then, I take it you dont like the BUSH law that was passed in 2004? Maybe you dont remember, but the law you are talking about was created by BUSH in 2004 and re-upped by Obama at the request of the defense department?

Where were you in 2004 when I and others complained about this law on this very board only to be told how patriotic it was because it was keeping us safe??

Hmmm?

Peace.

TOS

 

[804brown]

1. The government has the power to hold and detain any citizen without charges for any duration

2. The government can assinate an Americam Citizen.

3. The government can take your home or business if they decide to do so.

4. The government will force you to buy healthcare or face fine and possible imprisonment.

5. The government will tell any Religion that they have the power to superceed any religious belief.

6. To fly you must walk through a vivid xray machine or be subject to a full body search.

Being told you have to have health care insurance?? The horror!!

On religion, he is protecting those employees from being disciminated against .It is their religious freedom, their individual rights, not the right of a business (may it be catholic hospital or lutheran or public) to discriminate against its employees. Do these hospitals have the right to tell its jewish doctors and employees to wear crucifixes??

 

[island1fox]

So then, I take it you dont like the BUSH law that was passed in 2004? Maybe you dont remember, but the law you are talking about was created by BUSH in 2004 and re-upped by Obama at the request of the defense department?

Where were you in 2004 when I and others complained about this law on this very board only to be told how patriotic it was because it was keeping us safe??

Hmmm?

Peace.

TOS

Hmmm,

TOS, although I hate to "labeled" I have stated for many years I am very much an "INDEPENDANT". I have openly ,numerous times called for the end of ALL troop deployments around the world.

I have spoken up of eliminating foreign aid until everyone in America has been taken care of. Build the 9th ward in New Orleans rather than roads in the middle east.

Years ago I pined for a THIRD party and Diesel 96 told me it was never going to happen.

You can pick and choose your "points" left or right --bottom line we are losing our FREEDOM.

p.s. I already regret trying to convince anyone on MY beliefs and will avoid so in the future.

 

[island1fox]

804,


Put the Kool aid down for a while.

UPS demands you wear a BROWN uniform ---If you do not want to --do not work there. Not descrimination -just a fact.

Discrimination --misused as much as the race card---A religious organization should not be forced to do ANYTHING against their core beliefs. If someone wants the morning after pill or contraception the are thousands of non religious organizations that supply the services or products.

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.


On the Komen controversy --in this country at this point anyway --In good faith I contribute to Komen for Breast cancer research --I do not want MY money sent to planned parenthood. What part of "my" don't you understand. As long as Komen decides to fund planned parenthood --I will not contribute to Komen. I will send my money to a charity that will use MY money as intended.

 

[804brown]

Island,
If the government mandates a minumum wage of $10, then ups has to abide. When the catholic church goes into business, they have to play by the same rules. It would be like saying it is ok for fedex not to have to pay min wage but ups has to. Why should a non catholic hospital (A BUSINESS) be exempted when a secular one has to pay for them (unfair adantage, no??). This is NOT a separation of church and state. Try again.

 

[moreluck]

Island,
If the government mandates a minumum wage of $10, then ups has to abide. When the catholic church goes into business, they have to play by the same rules. It would be like saying it is ok for fedex not to have to pay min wage but ups has to. Why should a non catholic hospital (A BUSINESS) be exempted when a secular one has to pay for them (unfair adantage, no??). This is NOT a separation of church and state. Try again.

I'm sure your story would be different if we were talking about a mosque. The gov't can't stick their long arms into the church's beliefs....................................or require people to abandon their core beliefs.

Even Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church says 'O' is wrong and he did O's invocation. I don't hear much from the Muslim world......they are probably cheering for O on this one. Let's destroy the Catholics!! Maybe someone found something to post showing otherwise.

 

[804brown]

I'm sure your story would be different if we were talking about a mosque. The gov't can't stick their long arms into the church's beliefs....................................or require people to abandon their core beliefs.

Even Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church says 'O' is wrong and he did O's invocation. I don't hear much from the Muslim world......they are probably cheering for O on this one. Let's destroy the Catholics!! Maybe someone found something to post showing otherwise.

You both fail to answer my point: when the "church" or "mosque" for that matter is acting in the capacity of an employee/a business owner, it has an obligation to provide the same services that any other employer/business does. If it cannot abide by some simple rules, maybe it should get out of that business!!

 

[brett636]

Being told you have to have health care insurance?? The horror!!

What if I don't want nor need health insurance? What if I am a self made millioniare with enough money to cover whatever problems that ail me? Why should I be compelled to enter into a contract with a private company if I don't desire nor need their service? Where in the constitution does it give the government the power to tell me I have to purchase anything?

 

[804brown]

What if I don't want nor need health insurance? What if I am a self made millioniare with enough money to cover whatever problems that ail me? Why should I be compelled to enter into a contract with a private company if I don't desire nor need their service? Where in the constitution does it give the government the power to tell me I have to purchase anything?

I guess we both will have to wait until june for that ruling!!

 

[brett636]

You both fail to answer my point: when the "church" or "mosque" for that matter is acting in the capacity of an employee/a business owner, it has an obligation to provide the same services that any other employer/business does. If it cannot abide by some simple rules, maybe it should get out of that business!!

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[804brown]

Religious freedom is the right of the people, individuals, not a company, corporation or any other entity. Obama is not preventing anyone from worshipping is he?? Those in the owning authority, the church in this case, can still not use condoms, etc if they so wish. Plus how is allowing employees to have access to contraception NOT ALLOWING FREEDOM OF RELIGION?? Where in that book of theirs does it outlaw contraception??

 

[moreluck]

Rant all you want......time will tell the ending to this one. Either way, Obama is losing a lot of votes and as Martha would say, "That's a good thing."

 

[brett636]

Religious freedom is the right of the people, individuals, not a company, corporation or any other entity. Obama is not preventing anyone from worshipping is he?? Those in the owning authority, the church in this case, can still not use condoms, etc if they so wish. Plus how is allowing employees to have access to contraception NOT ALLOWING FREEDOM OF RELIGION?? Where in that book of theirs does it outlaw contraception??

He is telling religious organizations that they must not abide by their own teachings thus limiting the free exercise there of and violating the 1st amendment. I'm hearing that Catholic hospitals are thinking of closing up shop because of this ruling. This does not exactly improve the quality of people's healthcare.

 

[moreluck]

Obama will be backing down from all this......but he's already shown his hand. No damage control sweep will take it away!

 

[island1fox]

Obama will be backing down from all this......but he's already shown his hand. No damage control sweep will take it away!

moreluck,

On your point President Obama has shown his hand in an election year --Has many people --including Catholics wondering what will happen when he has nothing to lose if he is re-elected. Forced to perform Abortions ?? Forced to perform Gay Marriages ?? Forced to have female Priests ?? Where does the Government reach stop ??? You are free to practice your religion but only under my rules ??

 

[804brown]

Obama will be backing down from all this......but he's already shown his hand. No damage control sweep will take it away!

This is BIRTH CONTROL. 95% of catholic women use birth control. Oh a few old bishops are pissed off. Tough. They turn a blind eye to so much: state executions, unjust wars, high poverty levels, homelessness, priest shananigans, etc but women getting BIRTH CONTROL!!! Hell NO?? Where are their priorities??

 

[804brown]

moreluck,

On your point President Obama has shown his hand in an election year --Has many people --including Catholics wondering what will happen when he has nothing to lose if he is re-elected. Forced to perform Abortions ?? Forced to perform Gay Marriages ?? Forced to have female Priests ?? Where does the Government reach stop ??? You are free to practice your religion but only under my rules ??

"Cats and dogs living together!!"

 

[moreluck]

This is BIRTH CONTROL. 95% of catholic women use birth control. Oh a few old bishops are pissed off. Tough. They turn a blind eye to so much: state executions, unjust wars, high poverty levels, homelessness, priest shananigans, etc but women getting BIRTH CONTROL!!! Hell NO?? Where are their priorities??

forcing people to go against their core belief is the issue.

As far as needing birth control or whatever, there are free clinics, but the church related places don't want to be forced to pay for something that is against their core belief.

Women can get all the birth control they want.......just don't expect a Catholic institution to supply it for you.

 

[moreluck]

If nobody gives....then the Supreme Court will make a decision.....and just like their 9-0 vote before on something similar to this, they will declare O's mandate unconstitutional also 9-0.



Previous decision......

Supreme Court Sides with Church 9-0 in Landmark First Amendment Ruling

The unanimous decision adopted the Becket Fund’s arguments, saying that religious groups should be free from government interference when they choose their leaders. The church, Hosanna-Tabor, was represented by The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty and Professor Douglas Laycock, University of Virginia Law School. For years, churches have relied on a “ministerial exception” which protects them from employment discrimination lawsuits by their ministers.
“The message of today’s opinion is clear: The government can’t tell a church who should be teaching its religious message,” said Luke Goodrich, Deputy National Litigation Director at The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty. “This is a huge victory for religious freedom and a rebuke to the government, which was trying to regulate how churches select their ministers.”
The Court rejected the government’s extremely narrow understanding of the constitutional protection for religious liberty, stating: “We cannot accept the remarkable view that the Religion Clauses have nothing to say about a religious organization’s freedom to select its own ministers.”
“This is a huge win for religious liberty,” said Professor Doug Laycock. “The Court has unanimously confirmed the right of churches to select their own ministers and religious leaders.”
“It is amazing when a church from Redford, Michigan stands up for its rights and ends up going all the way to the Supreme Court,” said Reverend Paul Undlin of Hosanna Tabor. “Praise God for giving the Justices the wisdom to uphold the religious freedom enshrined in our Constitution!”
The Court found that the ministerial exception is rooted in both Religion Clauses—the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses. Justice Thomas filed a concurring opinion. Justice Alito joined by Justice Kagan also filed a concurring opinion.