RTW passes in Michigan

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by ftballer67, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. ftballer67

    ftballer67 New Member

    Capitol bracing for right-to-work vote protests; unions plan next moves | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    I called this a while ago, but it happened even faster than I thought. A lot of Teamster union dues will disappear if the next contract doesn't do more to help the part timers. 80% of the people on my preload are ready to withdraw already. Most common reasons stated, they don't feel they're being equally or adequately represented compared to the full timers.

    The other is that the part timers due to numbers pay the majority of the union dues to negotiate contracts that give the lion's share to the minority and leave them behind. Hard to argue.

    Union is going to have a tough sell, at least in my neck of the woods. They're going to have to show where the value is for the average part timer to become or remain a member.
  2. altstewie

    altstewie Combo Hopeful

    Im a michigan guy, how is it at other right to work states at ups facilities? Can anyone share?
  3. packageguy

    packageguy Well-Known Member

    I am against the right to work state, I heard some unions don't push to much, when it comes to part-timers because union does not hold pension fund, UPS controls part-time pension. This is what part-timers are saying,
  4. ftballer67

    ftballer67 New Member

    Union doesn't control the pension fund for full timers in Michigan either anymore. UPS withdrew from the Central States Pension fund in the last contract.
  5. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    The important things are about the same.
    The nit-picky stuff is overlooked.
    For Instance: The vendor can change stuff in the vending machine in a RTW state without someone filling a grievance.
    Typically, hourlies and management get along better but it is not as good as it was before UPS went public and all the technology was put in place.
    Atlanta area is generally a better place to work than Chicago or NYC and the pay and benes are the same.
  6. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    Hoffa is rolling over in his grave werever that may be!
  7. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    The other side of right to work:
    At-will employment is a doctrine of American law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can break the relationship with no liability, provided there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship and that the employer does not belong to a collective bargaining group (i.e., has not recognized a union). Under this legal doctrine:
    any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.[SUP][1]

    God Bless the IBT
  8. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    I work in a RTW hub. Stewards are forced to represent scabs. As a steward, I have to represent them during discipline/file their grievances. But if they want grievance forms or a contract book, they have to drive out to the union hall.

    I had a woman sign a union card (for another steward other than me) with a fake Social Security number. She asked me about strike pay the other day and was willing to sign a union card (changed her mind). Then she asked me if she could still work during a strike. I either have people refuse to sign cards out right or they keep promising to sign up "next month." :greedy:

    Most people are terrified to file grievances and there isn't much of a "union culture". Management gets away with murder as far as harassment/supervisors working. It's gotten better over the last year or so, but it's still awful. I think just under 80% of our PT'ers are union members and right at 90% for our FT'ers - almost every package car/feeder driver signs a card because of how easy it is to be fired.

    Your local's finances will be affected.. not immediately, but they will be. Over the next few years, revenue will decrease which could mean staffing cuts at the hall. You'll probably have a small amount of people "jump ship" as soon as they can because they're rat bastards, but the vast majority will stay on. But new hires won't be automatic union members and the a great deal of your stewards' time is going to revolve around signing up new members, rather than dealing with other issues.
  9. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    It's unfortunate that it has come to part-timers leaving the union by RTW choice, but that is what decades of poor negotiations for part-timers have done to our union. And now it's weakening our union.

    Bottom line is.... Full-timers remain union members in RTW states because the union continues to prove it's value to them (with wages, benefits, and job-security). The same can't be said about part-timers. We have neglected them too long in our contract negotiations. The UPS part-time jobs currently pay such a low wage that it appeals to most as a temporary job, which doesn't build strength in our union at all.

    I'm not saying we should hire new part-timers at $20/hr, but it shouldn't take a decade to reach that wage either. We should be accelerating their raises (more than we are now) as they gain seniority through the part-time ranks, thus gaining more support from a work-force that can see the benefit of supporting a union.
  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat New Member

    Im in Nevada - RTW. Here the union membership is about 50% of the hourly work force. Every body gets treated the same - union member or not. Every disciplinary action - there is ALWAYS a union steward present - even though the hourly may not be a dues paying union member. ALL disciplinary action is performed according to the terms of the contract. The amazing thing with our Local is the amount of in-fighting, back-stabbing, slandering etc etc etc between the members and the leadership. Certain members want Joe Blow as local president and others want John Doe. This has lead to some very humorous (and sad) spilts among the membership and in at least one case - vandalism. Of course, Management just sits back and laughs. However, all-in-all, the working conditions are about the same as anywhere else - you have management that try to get away with performing hourly work, and you have hourlies that wouldn't know an honest day's work if it bit them in the butt and look for any excuse to file a grievance.
  11. rod

    rod retired and happy

    Part- timers have a history of cutting their own throats by not banding together and not being involved with union negotiations or voting. Most consider themselves temporary employees (even if it don't turn out that way) so why bother to get involved. The squeeky wheell gets the grease. I don't believe you can blame the union for not busting their balls to get better contracts for the part- timers.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  12. ftballer67

    ftballer67 New Member

    No blame, but if the union expects to keep the part time members they're going to have to do more than they do right now.

    You won't have to deal with them not voting in elections, they'll vote with their dues, or lack of them.
  13. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    whether or not its their own fault is beside the point. All UPS Teamsters, FT and PT, are going to pay the price for it in the long run. If we are loosing are PTers in RTW states, we are weakening our union.

    Our strength as a union only comes from a united workforce, if that workforce starts dividing, we will become a much weaker union.
  14. RiverRat

    RiverRat New Member

    Well, a reasonable person would think that because the PT folks make up a far greater percentage of the workforce, the union would have their priorities straight?
  15. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    As Rod said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The vast majority of PTers do not involve themselves in the union hence the favoritism shown towards the FTers.
  16. packageguy

    packageguy Well-Known Member

    In our building part-timers hate the union, and it pisses me off. They have attendence problem, union has been fighting and saved lots of these part-timers jobs. but they still have bad things to say....
  17. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Don't be fooled by all the scare tactics you'll hear about the locals going broke and management getting the upperhand once a state becomes a right to work state. Its simply a lie. When those things happen its because of funds mismanagement and the weakness of the local members and agents. Being in a right to work state will be blamed but in most cases (if not all) the problems already existed before. The members are responsible. Not the right to work laws.

    Unions cannot and don't have the right to complain about not getting enough dues when they are giving millions of dollars to political organizations and have squandered pension funds in the process.

    I am a dues paying member in a right to work state.
  18. RiverRat

    RiverRat New Member

    Upstate - its a 2-way street and the union is as gulity as the hourlies. The problem in our area is that the union seems to ignore the PT people. The only time a BA will even show up for the PTers is when there is a center level hearing .. or a membership drive - at which time they tell the PTers how great the union is. During the last membership drive a couple of weeks back, I heard a Part Timer tell the BA - "I've been here for 2 years and you don't even know my name. Where have you been? Why haven't you come around and offered to explain the benefits of joining the union? .. You can take your union card and stick it." During the last election, a Feeder driver was running for Prez and he was shaking hands with all of the feeder and package drivers. I never saw him so much as introduce himself to the Local Sort. He lost the election.
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Think of the union as Mitt Romney and the PTers as the 47%.
  20. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Sometimes a simple analogy works better than thousands of words.