Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choice!

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

love to, but I have no dot, medically unfit.
so they would have to give me 8 inside @ day.
You could bump into a Day/Twi (1pm-10pm) here. There are 10 total, I'm guessing you have the juice over the other year 1s
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

Well...we're all waiting for an answer.

I think I finally solved the riddle.

idrivethetruck, 407 steward,

Integrity is :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_integrity

Integrity is preserved if you mean what you say and keep your promises.

Integrity is forfeit if what you do and what you believe are related only to the degree you get paid.

A common integrity failure is agreeing with the boss in order to keep your job when you passionately believe he's completely wrong.

The continued success of the modern business model practically depends on the idea that most people will compromise their integrity in exchange for a paycheck.

Sincerely,
I
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

I'm sure you realize OSHA requires employers to take disciplinary action against unsafe actions and behaviors in the work place.

There's no discipline for getting injured. There is discipline for unsafe actions and behavior, including those which result in an injury.

Safety can't be enforced without disciplinary action. OSHA wants to see formal training and discipline to curb unsafe work behaviors and conditions. Without it they view the employer as apathetic and unwilling to enforce safe work practices.
FracusBrown,

I have not researched it, but I believe that OSHA believes in management enforcement of safe work practices, up to and including discipinary action.

I do know that reporting a workplace injury is an OSHA protected act.

The truth is that your statement is corporate jargon. The purpose of this jargon is to try to rationalize and justify administering discipline, for example warning letters, for reporting a workplace injury.

The false claim that the discipline is for the unsafe act and behavior and not for the workplace injury report is as much of an insult to the injury (no pun intended) as is the actual discipline and reason for it.

The reason for it is to attempt to coherce, intimidate and bully the workforce so that this intimidation and harassment will put downward pressure on reported injury numbers.

The low level management people are being cohercde, intimidated and bullied into thinking this is the way to go. Remember when things go wrong the upper level management will cut bait and the low level management will be the bait.

If a company's culture is such that it usually only disciplines an employee for unsafe acts and behaviors when there is a workplace injury then you can do the math.

This is generally what happens at UPS

Sincerely,
I
 

FracusBrown

Ponies and Planes
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

FracusBrown,

I have not researched it, but I believe that OSHA believes in management enforcement of safe work practices, up to and including disciplinary action.

I do know that reporting a workplace injury is an OSHA protected act.

The truth is that your statement is corporate jargon. The purpose of this jargon is to try to rationalize and justify administering discipline, for example warning letters, for reporting a workplace injury.

The false claim that the discipline is for the unsafe act and behavior and not for the workplace injury report is as much of an insult to the injury (no pun intended) as is the actual discipline and reason for it.

The reason for it is to attempt to coherce, intimidate and bully the workforce so that this intimidation and harassment will put downward pressure on reported injury numbers.

The low level management people are being cohercde, intimidated and bullied into thinking this is the way to go. Remember when things go wrong the upper level management will cut bait and the low level management will be the bait.

If a company's culture is such that it usually only disciplines an employee for unsafe acts and behaviors when there is a workplace injury then you can do the math.

This is generally what happens at UPS

Sincerely,
I

Call it what you choose. It is corp jargon, but it's also reality. The fact is that without discipline there is no enforcement. For the protection of the workers there must be enforcement.

Are you in favor of increased disciplinary action? I agree that often only the unsafe acts resulting in injuries are addressed. Should the discipline be ramped up to include more of the potential injury acts and behaviors?

If you are truly interested in protecting workers, you can't possibly say with INTEGRITY that there should be less discipline for failing to work safely.
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

Here is an example, Last week driver rolled his ankle went to doctors gave him 4 days off, came back to work yesterday and got a warning letter for his injury. He told the center manager he is fighting this tooth and nail, and will get a lawyer if need be.

So , what UPS is saying, is don't report the injury.
That is what the drives are saying and thinking.

What was said straight out is 1st injury warning letter,
2nd injury notice of suspense
3rd injury notice of discharge.

Thats gotta be against the law!!
 

iamupser

Grease Monkey
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

UPS is the extremely abusive boyfriend and the union workforce is the beaten and broken girlfriend who is too scared to leave.
You know what happens when the boyfriend goes to sleep, and mommas had enough? They better sleep with their eyes open!
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

My old company was the same way. They give you all these BS rules and when an injury happens they find one of those rules to use against you. No matter what happened one rules would cover it. Just like they do here. All you need to do is work by the rules to a T.
 

Driveslayer

Well-Known Member
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

FACT Drivers are responisble for clearing an intersection before entering.
FACT Residential driveways are considered intersections.
FACT All intersections are avoidable according to UPS.
FACT You can not drive the speed limit while clearing these intersections.
FACT While on Supervised safety ride, supervisor said I could not slow down at all these residential intersections because we would be out all night!
FACT This same supervisor has now threatened me with a OJS ride.
More facts to come. How do these people sleep at night?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

My old company was the same way. They give you all these BS rules and when an injury happens they find one of those rules to use against you. No matter what happened one rules would cover it. Just like they do here. All you need to do is work by the rules to a T.

Your post contradicts itself.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

The reality of the situation is that UPS's so-called "safety program" is not intended to prevent injuries before they occur: it is instead intended to assign blame for injuries after they occur.

If the company creates a long enough list of methods, procedures and policies for its employees to follow, it is inevitable that some of them will be conflicting and mutually exclusive of one another (I.E. we are required to avoid end-range motion while at the same time folding in our mirrors at every stop which is itself an end-range motion.) Once armed with this exhaustive list of methods....along with the 20/20 hindsight that is so easy to employ from behind a desk...the supervisor will always be able to invent a reason why the employee should have done something differently in any given situation where an injury or accident has occured. Its sort of like throwing a dart at the wall, drawing the dartboard around the point where it hit, and then giving yourself credit for a bullseye.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

The reality of the situation is that UPS's so-called "safety program" is not intended to prevent injuries before they occur: it is instead intended to assign blame for injuries after they occur.

You don't think that any of the safety material, if used properly, could prevent injuries? I would think that we all followed the 8 keys to lifing and lowering to the letter back injuries would decrease significantly. The same with the 5 keys to avoid slips and falls. The problem comes when trying to put in to practice in a real world setting what was conceived in the ideal situation. The reality is many of us take shortcuts in order to get the job done. I'm not talking about methods shortcuts--I am talking about safety shortcuts. Do I follow all 8 keys to lifting and lowering to the letter--no, but I do follow the basic intent, which is to bring packages close to the body, lift with the legs and to ask for help if needed. There are times when I simply "man up" and risk possible injury by doing so.

My point is, I don't think this conspiracy theory that you speak of exists to the degree that you may think it does. At least that has not been my experience.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

You use be able to turn the belt off for over 70's. That rule still exists, but if you do turn the belt off, you are not working as directed. Happens at my building.
 
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

You don't think that any of the safety material, if used properly, could prevent injuries? I would think that we all followed the 8 keys to lifing and lowering to the letter back injuries would decrease significantly. The same with the 5 keys to avoid slips and falls. The problem comes when trying to put in to practice in a real world setting what was conceived in the ideal situation. The reality is many of us take shortcuts in order to get the job done. I'm not talking about methods shortcuts--I am talking about safety shortcuts. Do I follow all 8 keys to lifting and lowering to the letter--no, but I do follow the basic intent, which is to bring packages close to the body, lift with the legs and to ask for help if needed. There are times when I simply "man up" and risk possible injury by doing so.My point is, I don't think this conspiracy theory that you speak of exists to the degree that you may think it does. At least that has not been my experience living in la la land.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

You don't think that any of the safety material, if used properly, could prevent injuries? I would think that we all followed the 8 keys to lifing and lowering to the letter back injuries would decrease significantly. The same with the 5 keys to avoid slips and falls. The problem comes when trying to put in to practice in a real world setting what was conceived in the ideal situation. The reality is many of us take shortcuts in order to get the job done. I'm not talking about methods shortcuts--I am talking about safety shortcuts. Do I follow all 8 keys to lifting and lowering to the letter--no, but I do follow the basic intent, which is to bring packages close to the body, lift with the legs and to ask for help if needed. There are times when I simply "man up" and risk possible injury by doing so.

My point is, I don't think this conspiracy theory that you speak of exists to the degree that you may think it does. At least that has not been my experience.

You work in a building that has been cleaned up and has a BA visit every week. Our BA lasted 2 months. He quit and went back driving because of Brian. You are lucky. You have no idea how lucky. As I always say, drive 5 hours south and see how much your world could change.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

You work in a building that has been cleaned up and has a BA visit every week. You are lucky. You have no idea how lucky. As I always say, drive 5 hours south and see how much your world could change.

The last time BH was in the building was about two weeks ago. He was there to try to settle some grievances. The center manager gave him a few minutes to speak at the center manager but was unaware that BH had gone to breakfast.

Sideburns is there every week and does a good job documenting issues which come up. I asked him my retirement question and he told me he'd have an answer when I come back from vacation and I am sure that he will.

5 hours?? It only takes me 4 to get to Syracuse.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Re: Safety By Committment/Not by Choice-Injuries and Accidents By Chance/ Not By Choi

BH comes here after all the workers leave. From what I have been told, he hasn't been in in a long time. I like sideburns. Had lunch with him while I was "terminated". I thought the border was further than that. Maybe, I am thinking of Malone?
 
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