Safety Is Not Your Responsibility

[Integrity]

I respect that and you also.... I happen to not share that opinion though.... Ive spoke with him/her also and got nothing at all. Until I do I have little respect for any postings.... to me you dont need to reveal your actual identity but its nice to have some sort of idea of who the heck you are dealing with. Sally has never done so in any way shape or form so I cant form any respect of any level

tourists24,

I am sorry to hear this.

Anything I can do about this?

I only consider personal discussion in private.

I don't recall ever communicating with you via private message.

If I did and I don't remember I am sorry.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Integrity]

I'm the one responsible for my own safety, one reason is because I don't want to get hurt because it doesn't feel good. The company doesn't want us to get hurt either. They have other rea$ons. I've seen people do things unsafely, violated what they've been trained to do/not do and when I observed them they got away with it. I didn't say anything to them, it's not my responsibility to. I really don't want to hear a reply that I am not a manager either.

I will agree sometimes all the signs, messages recieved, etc. can be an annoying pain in the *** but when I comes down to it, do I work safely when I'm being watched and not when I'm alone?

It's in my best intere$ts to work safely and to be safe outside work and to observe good safety practices, some of which I learned long before I went to work for UPS.

bluhdmc,

I agree each employee is responsible for working according to safety guidelines or training.

I also agree that it is in each employee's best interest to do this.

This changes nothing in the debate.

The employer is responsible to see that employees are working according to safety training and guidelines.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Dracula]

Safety is each employee's responsibility. If you have unsafe equipment or workspace, you need to report it. You are not required to work in such a situation. That is the employer's responsibility. But you are the boss of you. No matter how much pressure UPS puts on you to make production, it doesn't take precedence over your own safety. UPS talks a lot about safety. They talk even more about over-allowed. Try all you want to reduce your over-allowed, if that's the kind of thing you fret about, but NEVER at the cost of your own safety.

 

[DorkHead]

After reading the original post and then commenting and then reading everyone else`s comments I have come to this conclusion:
Integrity, if you are a woman, then I would hate to be your husband!
If you are a man, then I feel sorry for your wife!

 

[Integrity]

Safety is each employee's responsibility. If you have unsafe equipment or workspace, you need to report it. You are not required to work in such a situation. That is the employer's responsibility. But you are the boss of you. No matter how much pressure UPS puts on you to make production, it doesn't take precedence over your own safety. UPS talks a lot about safety. They talk even more about over-allowed. Try all you want to reduce your over-allowed, if that's the kind of thing you fret about, but NEVER at the cost of your own safety.

Dracula,

Is this what I am hearing you say?

You feel it is each employee's responsibility to work accoriding to safety guidelines and training, each employee is responsible to report unsafe conditions, and each employee is responsible to not work in an unsafe condition or work area.

You also feel that each employee is responsible to make the safety of themselves, other employees, and the general public the utmost priority in each and every day. Production/service related issues should always come after safety.

Am I hearing you on this?

If so, I agree with you whole heartedly.

This doesn't change my opinion.

The employer is responsible to see that each employee under his or her direction fulfills their responsibilities to the company.

If an employee cannot or will not fulfill employment responsibilities after approriate and professional attempts at correction, then the employee should be professionally released from service to the employer.


Sincerely,
I

 

[Buck Fifty]

ICU,

You are speaking for a group now.

Please explain what "taking it on ourselves to be SAFE" means.

I do not understand what you mean.

What does this practically look like in a given day at your work place?

Thanks for participating in this discussion.

Sincerely,
I

It means that , so the company has no leverage to use against me at anytime, I take it upon myself to be safe and would hope everyone else would follow suit.

 

[Integrity]

It means that , so the company has no leverage to use against me at anytime, I take it upon myself to be safe and would hope everyone else would follow suit.

ICU,

What do you mean leverage to use against you?

How would the company do this?

Sincerely,
I

 

[Integrity]

After reading the original post and then commenting and then reading everyone else`s comments I have come to this conclusion:
Integrity, if you are a woman, then I would hate to be your husband!
If you are a man, then I feel sorry for your wife!

DorkHead,

Why would you make these statements?

What have I done to make you feel this way?

I feel I have interacted in this discussion thread in an appropriate manner.

Please inform me of exactly what displeases you. I am always willing to change for the better when necessary.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Buck Fifty]

ICU,

What do you mean leverage to use against you?

How would the company do this?


What do you mean, what ya mean ?

Sincerely,
I

 

[clarnzz]

Safety is my responsibility, management cannot even put splits in the same hemisphere. If I count on them to protect me I'll be in a wheelchair at 45.

 

[Dracula]

Dracula,

Is this what I am hearing you say?

You feel it is each employee's responsibility to work accoriding to safety guidelines and training, each employee is responsible to report unsafe conditions, and each employee is responsible to not work in an unsafe condition or work area.

You also feel that each employee is responsible to make the safety of themselves, other employees, and the general public the utmost priority in each and every day. Production/service related issues should always come after safety.

Am I hearing you on this?

If so, I agree with you whole heartedly.

This doesn't change my opinion.

The employer is responsible to see that each employee under his or her direction fulfills their responsibilities to the company.

If an employee cannot or will not fulfill employment responsibilities after approriate and professional attempts at correction, then the employee should be professionally released from service to the employer.


Sincerely,
I

Yes, I feel it is every employee's responsibility to work safe. My years working for UPS has demonstrated one thing: the company will talk all about safety, but they will do very little to make this happen, unless you hold their nose directly to it. When management has the choice between safety and production, production always gets the nod. Now, they won't admit it, but any driver on this forum will testify that when the streets are icy, or buried in snow, and their truck is loaded, and the decision is between getting done and bringing that load back, management will persuade you to get those packages delivered. It was always funny how they tip-toed around the safety issue. Clearly, we can see and feel what the priority is.

That is why, yes, safety is on the employee. No, I don't think an employee should be fired if something happens where an employee gets hurt. If an unloader gets hurt because a wall of packages falls on him/her, should he they be fired, as you claim? Of course not. Using your logic, if an employee gets hurt, then the immediate supervisor should be fired too, right? After all, the immediate supervisor has responsibility over his workers, just like he does with their production, so it is only logical for that supervisor to be terminated too, right?

No, what I'm talking about is taking care of yourself. Meaning, if you have to make a choice between making service and working safe, you go safe, every single time. Even if that means missing packages or not getting a load delivered on time; if that means you work safe at all costs, you work safe.

In feeders, I drive on a, sometimes, snowy freeway. If I feel it is unsafe to continue to drive, I will shut everything down and park it. If that means both of my trailers misses the sort, then that is what working safely means to me. Now when I call dispatch and tell them I'm shutting it down, they get angry. And this is what I'm talking about when I say safety is something the sups talk big about, but in practice, it is a paper tiger.

And if you get injured, you will lose money, maybe even hurt your body permanently. If you're off work, UPS will simply fill your spot. They won't miss you or the job you do for them. You have to look out for yourself. No matter what the cost.
So, to answer your question, I, I believe every employee should take care of his/her own safety.

 

[Integrity]

Safety is my responsibility, management cannot even put splits in the same hemisphere. If I count on them to protect me I'll be in a wheelchair at 45.

clarnzz,

I disagree.

Seeing that safety training and guidelines are followed is the responsibility of the employer.

Sincerely,
I

 

[BrownArmy]

Please, people please, stop feeding the troll.

 

[Integrity]

Yes, I feel it is every employee's responsibility to work safe. My years working for UPS has demonstrated one thing: the company will talk all about safety, but they will do very little to make this happen, unless you hold their nose directly to it. When management has the choice between safety and production, production always gets the nod. Now, they won't admit it, but any driver on this forum will testify that when the streets are icy, or buried in snow, and their truck is loaded, and the decision is between getting done and bringing that load back, management will persuade you to get those packages delivered. It was always funny how they tip-toed around the safety issue. Clearly, we can see and feel what the priority is.

That is why, yes, safety is on the employee. No, I don't think an employee should be fired if something happens where an employee gets hurt. If an unloader gets hurt because a wall of packages falls on him/her, should he they be fired, as you claim? Of course not. Using your logic, if an employee gets hurt, then the immediate supervisor should be fired too, right? After all, the immediate supervisor has responsibility over his workers, just like he does with their production, so it is only logical for that supervisor to be terminated too, right?

No, what I'm talking about is taking care of yourself. Meaning, if you have to make a choice between making service and working safe, you go safe, every single time. Even if that means missing packages or not getting a load delivered on time; if that means you work safe at all costs, you work safe.

In feeders, I drive on a, sometimes, snowy freeway. If I feel it is unsafe to continue to drive, I will shut everything down and park it. If that means both of my trailers misses the sort, then that is what working safely means to me. Now when I call dispatch and tell them I'm shutting it down, they get angry. And this is what I'm talking about when I say safety is something the sups talk big about, but in practice, it is a paper tiger.

And if you get injured, you will lose money, maybe even hurt your body permanently. If you're off work, UPS will simply fill your spot. They won't miss you or the job you do for them. You have to look out for yourself. No matter what the cost.
So, to answer your question, I, I believe every employee should take care of his/her own safety.

Dracula,

Please show me where I said anything about anyone being fired for being hurt on the job, hourly or management.

No employee should ever be fired or disciplined in any way as the result of being hurt on the job.

Employees who refuse to follow safe work training and guidelines, after professional attempts at correcting the problem should be fired.

Management employees who refuse to enforce safe work training and guidelines in their area of responsibility, after professional attempts at correcting the problem should also be fired.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Catatonic]

Some concepts, proposals, statements are not even worth the time.

Y'all have fun.

Please, people please, stop feeding the troll.

Agreed, this one was just too goofy.
Even Mr Sincerity wouldn't bite.

 

[Integrity]

Please, people please, stop feeding the troll.

BrownArmy,

This is a discussion thread forum.

People are supposed to exchange views, sometimes those views differ.

Why would you try to discourage people from interacting in a discussion thread?

If there is a discussion thread that you don't care to engage in then why don't you just stay out of it?

I say this with all due respect.

Sincerely,
I

 

[sortaisle]

There are two things at work here. First is What Integrity is bringing up and that is philosophy. I agree with his philosophy on how things should be. the second thing at work is reality. The reality is if you get hurt while at UPS it is with very few exceptions always your fault in the companies eyes. If you tweak your ankle then you should have looked where you were stepping. If you were lifting a package 100% correctly and tweaked your back, then you should have stretched more. There has only been two occasions that I can think of in 16 years that it wasn't an employees fault for getting hurt. One was when we had drop frame trucks, one of the floor boards rotted through. The other was someone got rear ended. I guess what I am thinking is I deal in realities and not philosophies when it comes to safety in the workplace. I have a union that will protect me (since I'm a steward...I cover my own arse) and my working interests. The reality is...if I get hurt on the job it's 99% of the time avoidable.

 

[Dracula]

Looking back on what I said, I have to say, what I was primarily talking about was driving, and not injuries. With injuries, there are a lot more variables at work. And sortaisle is right, almost every injury is classified as preventable by UPS. So while I think safe driving is each driver's responsibility, injuries on the job are a much stickier situation. I mean, if you get in an awkward position trying to grab a heavy package jammed underneath a shelf of a package car, and you slip, fall, or lose your balance and get hurt, how is that honestly pinned on the employee, and not the nature of the job?

 

[air_dr]

This thread and two earlier one's you have posted recently on relieving yourself in a bottle and cutting across peoples lawns have made me reflect...Since I believe we both consider ourselves followers of Christ, I would like to try and weave Sacred Scripture into my reaction...

Bottom line, while I believe you have some good intentions, I also believe your analysis has kept you busy straining gnats (and in the mean time, you may perhaps be unconsciously swallowing a camel in some other area of your life). I suggest a reading of Matthew 23 Matthew 23 NIV - A Warning Against Hypocrisy - Then - Bible Gateway.

As far as the matter of responsibility for safety, I believe that poster in the hub offers good advice for this imperfect world in which we find ourselves, even if what you are saying about the employer being responsible for safety through training and enforcement makes sense to me as well. The longer I have lived, the more I have come to appreciate how I need to be the one looking out for myself and not expect others to look out for me because the result of leaving that responsibility to others has a way of putting me on the losing end. Right or wrong, such has simply been my experience in life.

That poster, in my mind, is a general exhortation to follow what you have been taught and, even more importantly perhaps, use common sense and good judgement. The Apolstle Paul told the Thessalonians "He who does not work, does not eat." It's a generalization and I believe he hit the nail on the head for the context in which he said it: Some people quit working, had become busy bodies, and expected others to support them. I certainly don't believe Paul's words give us permission to neglect the disabled who truly cannot work and just allow them to starve because that is not what I believe Paul had in mind, even though Scripture does not make that explicitly clear.

What I think this and your other two threads which I mention fail to take into consideration is what I believe is the imposibility, in practical terms, of coming up with a thorough users' manual for life which would effectively cover every circumstance. Real life is just too complicated and nuanced. Furthermore, people who make the rules are sometimes simply out of touch with the reality of some situation. It's just the way it is.

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment.And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” As Jesus Himself says at the end of the quote, this covers it all...even if it doesn't fill in all the details.

In your two earlier threads where you were concerned about stepping on lawns and relieving yourself, since neither matter is a moral issue per se, and you have a directive coming from a person who seems to have gotten out of touch with the reality of operations, I say just strive to be courteous. If you relieve yourself in a bottle, make sure you dispose of it in a coureous way rather than leave it behind for another person to handle. If someone is very touchy about people stepping on his lawn and he asks to to stay on the walkway, you should do so, reagardless of whether there has been some special directive from management. If you have received a conflicting message, as you hypothetically suggest, and someone clearly couldn't care less if someone walks on his dandelion infested lawn, I wouldn't hesiatate to cut across. Its just that simple.