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<blockquote data-quote="av8torntn" data-source="post: 286229" data-attributes="member: 8259"><p>I thought you were talking about the Stone v. Graham. It was 230 in the morning. So from the decision you want.</p><p> </p><p>The First Amendment mandates governmental neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion. </p><p> </p><p>And also this makes it seem not as clear as you would like.</p><p> </p><p>Viewed in this light, it seems to me clear that the records in both of the cases before us are wholly inadequate to support an informed or responsible decision. Both cases involve provisions which explicitly permit any student who wishes, to be excused from participation in the exercises. There is no evidence in either case as to whether there would exist any coercion of any kind upon a student who did not want to participate. No evidence at all was adduced in the <em>Murray</em> case, because it was decided upon a demurrer. All that we have in that case, therefore, is the conclusory language of a pleading. While such conclusory allegations are acceptable for procedural purposes, I think that the nature of the constitutional problem involved here clearly demands that no decision be made except upon evidence. In the <em>Schempp</em> case, the record shows no more than a subjective prophecy by a parent of what he thought would happen if a request were made to be excused from participation in the exercises under the amended statute. No such request was ever made, and there is no evidence whatever as to what might or would actually happen, nor of what administrative arrangements the school actually might or could make to free from pressure of any kind those who do not want to participate in the exercises. There were no District Court findings on this issue, since the case under the amended statute was decided exclusively on Establishment Clause grounds.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="av8torntn, post: 286229, member: 8259"] I thought you were talking about the Stone v. Graham. It was 230 in the morning. So from the decision you want. The First Amendment mandates governmental neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion. And also this makes it seem not as clear as you would like. Viewed in this light, it seems to me clear that the records in both of the cases before us are wholly inadequate to support an informed or responsible decision. Both cases involve provisions which explicitly permit any student who wishes, to be excused from participation in the exercises. There is no evidence in either case as to whether there would exist any coercion of any kind upon a student who did not want to participate. No evidence at all was adduced in the [I]Murray[/I] case, because it was decided upon a demurrer. All that we have in that case, therefore, is the conclusory language of a pleading. While such conclusory allegations are acceptable for procedural purposes, I think that the nature of the constitutional problem involved here clearly demands that no decision be made except upon evidence. In the [I]Schempp[/I] case, the record shows no more than a subjective prophecy by a parent of what he thought would happen if a request were made to be excused from participation in the exercises under the amended statute. No such request was ever made, and there is no evidence whatever as to what might or would actually happen, nor of what administrative arrangements the school actually might or could make to free from pressure of any kind those who do not want to participate in the exercises. There were no District Court findings on this issue, since the case under the amended statute was decided exclusively on Establishment Clause grounds. [/QUOTE]
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