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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 320140" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Although a union member, I've never gave to DRIVE but that said, the endorsement of Obama although IMO premature was however not a surprise. I think at the time the endorsement was made, the good money was in the democrats retaining Congress and maybe even gaining a few seats (another reason many republicans are calling it a day and leaving Congress for lobbying jobs before the law changes) and at the time the republican conservative base in some manner seemed at best lukewarm to McCain. Granted things have changed over the last several weeks but it would seem at this point that not much will change in the Congress itself.</p><p> </p><p>IBT's endorsement in some sense has followed Corp. America in that Corp. America has not endorsed Obama but the majority of Corp. campaign money which use to go republican has this election gone to the democrats.<a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6359.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6359.html</span></a></p><p>This also signals a percieved power change to come so they as moving their bets to the other side of the isle. Now money is still going to the republicans but the advantage has gone democrat. Both Corp. America and the union along with a whole host of other interests want to be in postiion to effect public policy in relation to their own interests whether that be good for America as a whole or not. BTW: if you democrats think your party is beyond selling you down the road for corp. interests, think again!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p> </p><p>There were also 2 posts with one concerning the Characteristics of Fascism and the other Communism. I'd like to first commend each poster for a nice job and making excellent points whether they be original ideas or something found and copied elsewhere on the net. That in no way IMO reduces the good job you both did.</p><p> </p><p>However, in reading both pieces and the surrounding posts, it's obvious the points were directed at the 2 competing political philosophies that are the dominate forces within our government in the form of poltical parties. I happen to believe that both posters in a real sense were correct in their observations but I also think there is a back and forth crossover effect as well. Case in point is FDR who like Churchill before the ravages of WW2 started taking effect had praised for example the ideas of Mussolini and Italian Fascism. Hilter and his model came to scar the word fascism in later years but the concepts none the less remain embedded in American public policy even today. Corporatism whether good or bad is a hallmark of Mussolini's Fascsim. We today have a hybrid of fascism in gov't mandate or policy but action and enforcement via what we call "Privtization". Others point to "State regulated but privately owned" which again is another hallmark of true fascism with no good or bad here implied. Just the way it is.</p><p><a href="http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm</span></a></p><p> </p><p>John Flynn, <a href="http://mises.org/pdf/whois/flynn.pdf" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://mises.org/pdf/whois/flynn.pdf</span></a> a liberal and early advocate of FDR came to see FDR's New Dealism for what it was with FDR's hybridization of Italian fascism and thus came to write his work entitled, "As We Go Marching" which breaks down Fascism so to speak in 3 parts with the seedbed of Italy, the bad in Germany and the good in America. Entire book in pdf format is on the web. </p><p><a href="http://www.mises.org/books/aswegomarching.pdf" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">http://www.mises.org/books/aswegomarching.pdf</span></a></p><p>Ain't it funny that the first imperialist "NEO-CON" in the Woodrow Wilson/FDR vein were in fact democrats! LMAO!!!!!! OK, OK, you can also say TR and McKinnley beat them to it but the democrats perfected the art form and then the Johnny come latelies in the form of Irving Kristol and friends. Oh boy, now we'll get the anti-semetic tripe!</p><p> </p><p>The irony at the same time we not only saved the USSR via lend/lease and other gov't programs funded at taxpayer expense but in time as the poster who compared the characteristics of communism with direct aspects of our own gov't, these traits came into being within our own gov't and again in a hybrid kinda way. BTW: The staunch republican Armand Hammer was a big backer of the USSR and throughout his life manipulated US policy to bypass trade barriers and do bidness with the "RED COMMIES!" Maybe because his father helped to found the communist party in America!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/surprised.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":surprised:" title="Surprised :surprised:" data-shortname=":surprised:" /></p><p> </p><p>It's also funny that the 18th century Adam Smith and his Wealth of Nations came to greatly influence our early economic system and is still to this day lauded in many circles. But Adam Smith was also an influence on a 19th century economic and political theorist from England in the name of Karl Marx. Marxist's ultimate goal in his communist theory was that gov't over time would be done away with as it would no longer be needed. This is another reason many early 20th century anarchists flocked to Russia in the early days of the Bolshevik revolution only to realize in the 1920's and especially with Stalin that Russia had become just another European Empire (Nation-State) and even Reagan referred to them as the evil empire. </p><p> </p><p>Fascism of the right and communism on the left but how can each come to the ultimate point of Empire? Look closely at both characteristics and what do they have in common.</p><p> </p><p>1) State alliegence </p><p>2) State control of economics either by public owership or regulation over the private sector</p><p>3) State control of land whether by ownership and allotment (eminent domain abuse the principle American way) or regulatory control via zoning laws for example and environmental as well.</p><p>4) State control of banking</p><p>5) State control of though ie religion and philosophy. anything contary to the State interest is not tolerated at all by whatever means needed. This goes both ways as those who oppose war for example are called unpatriotic and those who want open expression of religion and do so are ridicled as oppressive and intolerate of others. Im this case the State exhibits both fascist and communist traits IMO or a hybrization.</p><p> </p><p>And the comparison goes on and on but in both cases, the life, the liberty and the happiness of the individual is determined by a central power and not by the individual themselves. Both system which have hybridized into the fabric of public policy and gov't operation of both parties go completely contary to the principles that founded this country and more importantly the lost and more powerful principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta. </p><p> </p><p>In both comparisons of the 2 systems that the right see in the left and the left see in the right which are in fact old world relics of European Nation-state ideals that we fought a war in 1776' and another one in 1812' to stay out of, we now find ourselves right back in the middle of. Until we recapture the principles of the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence and start gasping a return to the Constitution, we will continue to be tossed to the left with Communistic Nation State or to the right and Fascist Nation State. In both cases gov't and our lives around us become more and more monopolized to the benefit of the priviledged and powerful who have created thier own access via political lobby and we become more and more the slave so to speak. I use slave because I once heard someone say that when 25% or more of you individual productivity is taken and given to another, you are in fact their slave. I think it's fair to say we pay more in 25% total taxes in ouyr world today so in that sense we are slaves. </p><p> </p><p>I propose it's time to leave the plantation!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 320140, member: 2189"] Although a union member, I've never gave to DRIVE but that said, the endorsement of Obama although IMO premature was however not a surprise. I think at the time the endorsement was made, the good money was in the democrats retaining Congress and maybe even gaining a few seats (another reason many republicans are calling it a day and leaving Congress for lobbying jobs before the law changes) and at the time the republican conservative base in some manner seemed at best lukewarm to McCain. Granted things have changed over the last several weeks but it would seem at this point that not much will change in the Congress itself. IBT's endorsement in some sense has followed Corp. America in that Corp. America has not endorsed Obama but the majority of Corp. campaign money which use to go republican has this election gone to the democrats.[URL="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6359.html"][COLOR=red]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6359.html[/COLOR][/URL] This also signals a percieved power change to come so they as moving their bets to the other side of the isle. Now money is still going to the republicans but the advantage has gone democrat. Both Corp. America and the union along with a whole host of other interests want to be in postiion to effect public policy in relation to their own interests whether that be good for America as a whole or not. BTW: if you democrats think your party is beyond selling you down the road for corp. interests, think again! :happy-very: There were also 2 posts with one concerning the Characteristics of Fascism and the other Communism. I'd like to first commend each poster for a nice job and making excellent points whether they be original ideas or something found and copied elsewhere on the net. That in no way IMO reduces the good job you both did. However, in reading both pieces and the surrounding posts, it's obvious the points were directed at the 2 competing political philosophies that are the dominate forces within our government in the form of poltical parties. I happen to believe that both posters in a real sense were correct in their observations but I also think there is a back and forth crossover effect as well. Case in point is FDR who like Churchill before the ravages of WW2 started taking effect had praised for example the ideas of Mussolini and Italian Fascism. Hilter and his model came to scar the word fascism in later years but the concepts none the less remain embedded in American public policy even today. Corporatism whether good or bad is a hallmark of Mussolini's Fascsim. We today have a hybrid of fascism in gov't mandate or policy but action and enforcement via what we call "Privtization". Others point to "State regulated but privately owned" which again is another hallmark of true fascism with no good or bad here implied. Just the way it is. [URL="http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm"][COLOR=red]http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm[/COLOR][/URL] John Flynn, [URL="http://mises.org/pdf/whois/flynn.pdf"][COLOR=red]http://mises.org/pdf/whois/flynn.pdf[/COLOR][/URL] a liberal and early advocate of FDR came to see FDR's New Dealism for what it was with FDR's hybridization of Italian fascism and thus came to write his work entitled, "As We Go Marching" which breaks down Fascism so to speak in 3 parts with the seedbed of Italy, the bad in Germany and the good in America. Entire book in pdf format is on the web. [URL="http://www.mises.org/books/aswegomarching.pdf"][COLOR=red]http://www.mises.org/books/aswegomarching.pdf[/COLOR][/URL] Ain't it funny that the first imperialist "NEO-CON" in the Woodrow Wilson/FDR vein were in fact democrats! LMAO!!!!!! OK, OK, you can also say TR and McKinnley beat them to it but the democrats perfected the art form and then the Johnny come latelies in the form of Irving Kristol and friends. Oh boy, now we'll get the anti-semetic tripe! The irony at the same time we not only saved the USSR via lend/lease and other gov't programs funded at taxpayer expense but in time as the poster who compared the characteristics of communism with direct aspects of our own gov't, these traits came into being within our own gov't and again in a hybrid kinda way. BTW: The staunch republican Armand Hammer was a big backer of the USSR and throughout his life manipulated US policy to bypass trade barriers and do bidness with the "RED COMMIES!" Maybe because his father helped to found the communist party in America! :surprised: It's also funny that the 18th century Adam Smith and his Wealth of Nations came to greatly influence our early economic system and is still to this day lauded in many circles. But Adam Smith was also an influence on a 19th century economic and political theorist from England in the name of Karl Marx. Marxist's ultimate goal in his communist theory was that gov't over time would be done away with as it would no longer be needed. This is another reason many early 20th century anarchists flocked to Russia in the early days of the Bolshevik revolution only to realize in the 1920's and especially with Stalin that Russia had become just another European Empire (Nation-State) and even Reagan referred to them as the evil empire. Fascism of the right and communism on the left but how can each come to the ultimate point of Empire? Look closely at both characteristics and what do they have in common. 1) State alliegence 2) State control of economics either by public owership or regulation over the private sector 3) State control of land whether by ownership and allotment (eminent domain abuse the principle American way) or regulatory control via zoning laws for example and environmental as well. 4) State control of banking 5) State control of though ie religion and philosophy. anything contary to the State interest is not tolerated at all by whatever means needed. This goes both ways as those who oppose war for example are called unpatriotic and those who want open expression of religion and do so are ridicled as oppressive and intolerate of others. Im this case the State exhibits both fascist and communist traits IMO or a hybrization. And the comparison goes on and on but in both cases, the life, the liberty and the happiness of the individual is determined by a central power and not by the individual themselves. Both system which have hybridized into the fabric of public policy and gov't operation of both parties go completely contary to the principles that founded this country and more importantly the lost and more powerful principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta. In both comparisons of the 2 systems that the right see in the left and the left see in the right which are in fact old world relics of European Nation-state ideals that we fought a war in 1776' and another one in 1812' to stay out of, we now find ourselves right back in the middle of. Until we recapture the principles of the Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence and start gasping a return to the Constitution, we will continue to be tossed to the left with Communistic Nation State or to the right and Fascist Nation State. In both cases gov't and our lives around us become more and more monopolized to the benefit of the priviledged and powerful who have created thier own access via political lobby and we become more and more the slave so to speak. I use slave because I once heard someone say that when 25% or more of you individual productivity is taken and given to another, you are in fact their slave. I think it's fair to say we pay more in 25% total taxes in ouyr world today so in that sense we are slaves. I propose it's time to leave the plantation! :peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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